Stupid Question, But Dr Google unavailable

[MISS BM 712]

The theory goes, when your clutch starts slipping, your replace it with a new one, right?

What if that new one starts slipping too? Probably an obvious answer to a simple question, but Im baffled.

I sold my car in good faith, with brand new bits and bobs, service etc to have the guy come back and say the clutch is slipping and what looks like faulty speed sensors..

Clutch was 1000ks old when I sold it, brand new BMW one.

Could someone drop some insight as I feel rather bad for the guy as he seemed decent enough Id figure I help him at least get the answer.

*clutch was not slipping at all on sale and no faults*

[euroriffic 607]

Seems weird that a new clutch is slipping??? Take it it was a kit with new pressure plate and was flywheel resurfaced?

Maybe he just can't drive manual hahaha

[MISS BM 712]

 The first question is - was the clutch that came out stuffed - if not the problem may still be elsewhere

 

Second:  was the replacement clutch done properly and or by a reputable party (I think the answer to this is yes from your previous posts)

 

which really only leaves:

faulty parts - probably not

slave cylinder not fully releasing - fluid on wrong side of piston and several other possible causes.

the new owner can't drive a Manual ?

Thanks.

Not sure clutch that came out was stuffed, didn't check? yes done by the best.. Im thinking maybe slave cylinder as this was replaced before me with brand new bmw parts.. Mm seems weird.

Or flywheel.

This is not my issue though, is it? I sold the car in working order, he test drove it and it's taken a few weeks to become apparent.

[charles28 136]

Legally you are not required to do anything, buying old cars comes with risks, as we all know, since many of us have been on the receiving end too and didn't expect the last owner to cough up

[polley 916]

If they dont seem like the kind of person that would be driving it like a muppet, I would be sending them to the people that did the clutch replacement.

[KwS 2425]

woah double standards up in here, if this was the buyer posting half you guys would be all "wah wah go ask for your money back" like the last thread.

Hes probably one of those awful people that rides the clutch to hold the car at intersections, overheating the clutch plate. Clutches take time to bed in, and will slip during bed in if treated badly, but 1000km should be enough to bed it in.

You sold it in the condition it was test driven in. If he didnt inspect it properly, its his problem.

[pldubs 308]

I think the flywheel skim thing is a myth. I slapped a new clutch on an old ( 180,000ks ) flywheel and it did atleast 5000ks before I sold it and it bit up hard, Havent heard anything from new owner either and he only lives down the street.

[polley 916]

woah double standards up in here, if this was the buyer posting half you guys would be all "wah wah go ask for your money back" like the last thread.

 

Hes probably one of those awful people that rides the clutch to hold the car at intersections, overheating the clutch plate. Clutches take time to bed in, and will slip during bed in if treated badly, but 1000km should be enough to bed it in.

 

You sold it in the condition it was test driven in. If he didnt inspect it properly, its his problem.

You mean the one where they got it AA inspected and they said it was mechanically sound when it was really ready to fall off the road?

[yng_750 247]

A clutch can be killed in seconds of spin. Id say he drove like a nana slowly dropping the clutch at 5krpm

[MISS BM 712]

Thanks guys.

Flywheel was not replaced, or I would of know the bill. I arranged the repairs on my good belief it was the replacement of a clutch since it was slipping.

After bedding it in to 1000ks I got a very competent manual driver to hoof it a bit and test it, car was all fine and well, and he test drove it fine and well.

Car left my ownership in practically mint cond par tensioner belt which he acknowledge. Hes a decent enough guy that Id thought I'd seek some advice to move onto him. He apparently took it to a mechanic that said "it wasn't good" but didn't bother to scan/or couldn't so I wouldn't say a competent BMW mechanic...

[hunter 408]

Thanks.

Not sure clutch that came out was stuffed, didn't check? yes done by the best.. Im thinking maybe slave cylinder as this was replaced before me with brand new bmw parts.. Mm seems weird.

Or flywheel.

This is not my issue though, is it? I sold the car in working order, he test drove it and it's taken a few weeks to become apparent.

Nope not your issue at all.

You are doing a good thing by asking around for help and possible direction to point him in. But i wouldn't take it any further than that. If he test drove it, and obviously paid for it then ownership of problems that have appeared since he took the car are his. He could have done any thing to the car in the last few weeks, clutch rising like a nana at the lights, burnouts with the boys on a Friday night etc.

Had a similar situation with Bike i sold once, guy saw 2 years worth of service history, test rode, etc etc. then rode it from Hamilton to Nelson, called me 2 weeks later, saying it wasn't running right and his "pro mechanic" has issues with it.

I had my mechanic call him to help him out with questions and stuff, but after a few conversations it was clear the guy had buyers remorse and was looking for an excuse to off load the bike and get a refund at the same time - again, he could have done anything to it in 2 weeks, so it's not my problem.

Would have been different if it was the next day or as he was taking the vehicle away. when buying second hand the responsibility is on the buyer to ensure all pre purchase checks are performed before the transaction is complete. Citizens Advice Bureau is good for advice in these matters too, if you need it.

Good luck with the buyer!

Edited September 26, 2014 by hunter

[Allanw 1071]

Is it slipping a lot, or is it just certain times?

The car may still have the Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) installed, which makes the clutch slip somewhat on launch, because it effectively rides the clutch for you. (Even when BMW lets you have a manual tranmission, they don't want you to be able to control it properly - I removed mine not long after getting the car - it's WAAAAAAY better.).

The dual mass flywheels (DMF) get replaced because the damping springs, gears etc wear out and cause play/noise/vibration. They can be done though. They aren't always required, but aren't likely to be in good condition through the life of two complete clutch plates. I have a document from Sachs that says the DMF MUST NOT be resurfaced, and should ALWAYS be replaced at the second clutch replacement.

If the flywheel surface is in good condition, a light scuff is enough to help seat the new friction plate. If the old clutch was slipping excessively though, this would be unlikely. Even if the surface looks OK, the dual mass components may not be, but that wouldn't make it slip.

You can't know what he's been doing to it.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Allanw

[MISS BM 712]

I might also add, not being the *best* manual driver, I had my Brother (Ryan with white M5) drive it for a couple of weeks to hit over the 1000k bedding Mark, as I wanted it done properly. Even after that initial 1000ks, car was fine right up until now.

Slave cylinder was replaced with brand new BM one not long before new clutch went in.

I am thinking potential flywheel, or maybe Slave Cylinder gone bust in last couple weeks?

I guess all I can do, is tell him to take it somewhere that offers scanning abilities to sort out what I believe is a speed sensor issue (common maintenance) and link him to either a local supplier of new flywheels or overseas (ECS) or his mechanic I guess could do it.

The precise reason I sold the car after that 1000k Mark was so no one could cause damage on the new clutch, and as everybody knew, I wasn't selling it for the urgency, but genuine reason of not needing 2 cars and the Schnitzer is never parting my ways anytime soon. It wasn't sold via trade me but by word of mouth.

[MISS BM 712]

I might also add, not being the *best* manual driver, I had my Brother (Ryan with white M5) drive it for a couple of weeks to hit over the 1000k bedding Mark, as I wanted it done properly. Even after that initial 1000ks, car was fine right up until now.

Slave cylinder was replaced with brand new BM one not long before new clutch went in.

I am thinking potential flywheel, or maybe Slave Cylinder gone bust in last couple weeks?

I guess all I can do, is tell him to take it somewhere that offers scanning abilities to sort out what I believe is a speed sensor issue (common maintenance) and link him to either a local supplier of new flywheels or overseas (ECS) or his mechanic I guess could do it.

The precise reason I sold the car after that 1000k Mark was so no one could cause damage on the new clutch, and as everybody knew, I wasn't selling it for the urgency, but genuine reason of not needing 2 cars and the Schnitzer is never parting my ways anytime soon. It wasn't sold via trade me but by word of mouth.

[BM WORLD 1283]

the dual mass flywheel will be buggered and a new clutch wont last long at all.

the 2 parts of the flywheel will be flexing all over the place cause the clutch to slip.

have seen this happen many times.

[sonic_attack 89]

the dual mass flywheel will be buggered and a new clutch wont last long at all.

the 2 parts of the flywheel will be flexing all over the place cause the clutch to slip.

have seen this happen many times.

Ouch. Good to learn.

[polley 916]

He apparently took it to a mechanic that said "it wasn't good" but didn't bother to scan/or couldn't so I wouldn't say a competent BMW mechanic...

Yeah I bet if you scanned it, it would come back confirming the clutch is f**ked.

[MISS BM 712]

Yeah I bet if you scanned it, it would come back confirming the clutch is f**ked.    

Scan if for the speed sensors faults causing warning lights on dash..

Read before you reply...

[polley 916]

Yeah I did read it, but I got bored half way through.

[MISS BM 712]

Yeah I did read it, but I got bored half way through.

Clearly got your attention enough to post something then huh?

Picking and choosing parts of a paragraph to troll - you must have nothing better to do with your time

[polley 916]

Clearly got your attention enough to post something then huh?

Picking and choosing parts of a paragraph to troll - you must have nothing better to do with your time

You're right, I don't.

[MISS BM 712]

I am about to do the clutch in my X5 and have been told that BMW recommend the fly wheel is done as well. Mine is at 254,000 km so that's not unreasonable. Given Brents' comment I will do the flywheel.

 

If I had just bought a car with a new clutch fitted and had these problems , and then  when  inspected by a BMW dealer or independent it was found that the fly wheel was the problem  (and not my driving) - I would be taking you to the small claims court particularly if you presented proof of the work i.e.  a receipt or  referred to it in an add e.g. trademe.

 

The purchaser is entitled to expect that if you claim to have had work done, then that work should be fit for purpose and to an accepted standard - 1,000 km from a clutch would not qualify as fit for purpose or to an accepted standard. The NZTA  states that any reconditioning or repairs should come within 10% of the original specification / performance.

 

 If the purchaser knows his rights and you did claim and he has proof and he is prepared to take you to task - you may well end up  having to defend this.

Car was sold in as is where is condition, signed and documented with witnesses that he was happy and suitable with condition of the car. Team McMillian supplied the clutch as they believed it was a faulty clutch, I however didn't trust them to install it so moved the job on.

So, me, not being a mechanic, or being there on the clutch change, I have the fore thought that it's then not my issue as was fine on sale... But how could we of known if it was clutch or flywheel, I don't have a hoist or anything available to casually chuck my car up and sort it out or have a look, nor the knowledge.

Sigh. If I was a 'typical' seller Like I have had with countless cars I bought and died on me, I wouldn't of replied. But I wasn't like that and trying to help him out.

Will let him know it could be Flywheel I guess

[polley 916]

He apparently took it to a mechanic that said "it wasn't good" but didn't bother to scan/or couldn't so I wouldn't say a competent BMW mechanic...

Team McMillian supplied the clutch as they believed it was a faulty clutch, I however didn't trust them to install it so moved the job on.

Will let him know it could be Flywheel I guess

Oh lawdy, that cracks me up.

Anyway, depending how much slipping its been doing and how hot its got. The clutch disk and pressure plate will now be rooted as well.

[hunter 408]

If sold "as is where is" there is no come back to you, if he acknowledged that at point of sale.

Citizens advice will tell you the same, caveat emptor in the case of private sales.

[MISS BM 712]

Oh lawdy, that cracks me up.

Anyway, depending how much slipping its been doing and how hot its got. The clutch disk and pressure plate will now be rooted as well.

Flywheel and Clutch. Nice cost on that one.

Edit: will discuss with him and see what can be done.

Edited September 27, 2014 by MISS BM