Here we go again with cops and their conclusions

[kwhelan 241]

More than 8000 drink-drivers were nabbed in the first year of New Zealand's lower alcohol law.

The 8000 caught by police would have been legally under the limit before tougher legislation came into force in 2014.

and didn't we just have the highest roadtoll in ages and we now also have way more options to avoid the driving with UBER and the increased bus and train routes etc

I guess you could argue that they are falling in line with overseas trends but i get annoyed with their logic

National road policing manager Superintendent Steve Greally told NZME he believes the new legislation is working.

"That is extremely encouraging for the long-term.

"It seems like Kiwis are doing a great job of taking drink-driving more

seriously," Greally said.

Alcohol is responsible for around 27 per cent of crashes

Wow How do they know, I would agree it was possibly a contributing factor but tiredness which caused the lack of concentration is the unknown,I guess alcohol exagerates a persons tiredness. I would argue those that crash are so far over the limit that the limit is arbitrary. We have so many multiple offenders that are 3x the limit

if it really was 27% there would have to have been a lower road toll, the whole logic makes no sense

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/30526660/new-alcohol-limit-nabs-8000-drivers/

Edited January 9, 2016 by kwhelan

[KwS 2425]

I dont care what the story is when it comes to drink driving, absolutely anything they can do to get drink drivers off the road is a win in my book.

[Michael. 2313]

I agree.

Would you operate a skill saw, grinder or lathe after having a few beers? I know I wouldn't

Driving a car is even worse.

I personally would like to see a nil alcohol limit, like in Japan and other countries.

Taxis and other services would have to become way more competitive to meet the demands I suspect.

[zero 1162]

Alcohol is responsible for around 27 per cent of crashes

Wow How do they know, I would agree it was possibly a contributing factor but tiredness which caused the lack of concentration is the unknown,I guess alcohol exagerates a persons tiredness. I would argue those that crash are so far over the limit that the limit is arbitrary. We have so many multiple offenders that are 3x the limit

if it really was 27% there would have to have been a lower road toll, the whole logic makes no sense

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/30526660/new-alcohol-limit-nabs-8000-drivers/

Well, I could put up the data that goes through the facts in detail, but last time I put up the speeding data in the speeding thread I got attacked for it.

[KwS 2425]

Taxis and other services would have to become way more competitive to meet the demands I suspect.

HA! Good luck with that, even with Uber they would rather fight it then actually become competitive.

[Olaf 3317]

it's interesting, in the 60's and 70's it was pretty much 'mind how you go'. Nobody will argue that alcohol - in increasing quantities - does impair judgement and performance behind the wheel.

Until just over a year ago, our limit allowed a certain amount of impairment. There was no reporting or evidence to suggest that many accidents were caused by people driving in the region of the old limit - that is, above our new limit, and below our old limit.

There was certainly much coverage of recidivist offenders driving at multiple times the (old) limit. And many accidents indicating a major contributing factor was impairment well over the (old) limit.

What they have done, is used an elephant gun to kill a mouse. They've legislated to make you and I - or your neighbour, or your workmate - criminals. We used to enjoy two - perhaps three - glasses after work, perhaps with some food, and drive carefully home. Or not! Now, in the same circumstances, we're all criminals driving at that level of 'impairment'.

What has changed? Has this reduced the number of recidivist offenders, or the road toll?

The f#cking idiots who were driving pissed before, are still over the limit. Me? I take an Uber, or walk. I didn't have accidents as a result of responsibly driving with three beers after work.

How great was the risk that this law change was designed to manage?

[gjm 3258]

It's catering for the lowest common denominator, again. Those who simply cannot handle a couple of beers, and those that think they are invincible, and/or "drive better" with a couple of beers inside them.

Make drink driving an imprisonable offence, with (say) 2 days for being over the limit, increasing 2 days at a time as the level of alcohol rises. The offending individual will serve this time between Friday evening and Sunday evening, doing something useful while being detained.

[kwhelan 241]

I was told that if you are caught in queensland you get processed in a booze bus on side of road and if over limit you are in the cells till 9am mon when you are delivered directly to court

bad luck if caught on a fri as opposed to sun but great idea and would work here

interestingly on the old limit when they did a live drinking test on campbell live with a collection of people all the people said they felt too drunk to drive and wouldn't have long before they were actually legally over the limit so I think most sensible people err on the side of caution.

the new limit just seems to be more about money than directly affecting the biggest categories of death by accident which I would be targeting my resources at if in charge

[kwhelan 241]

Well, I could put up the data that goes through the facts in detail, but last time I put up the speeding data in the speeding thread I got attacked for it.

you didn't get attacked but the data sure was,

anyone can make statistics say anything they want

i.e." have you bashed your wife in the last 36hrs" yes/no

hell I could show you statistics that made you an idiot if you didn't buy all the bruce judge ariadne shares you could possibly afford

[KwS 2425]

as mentioned, some countries have adopted a zero alcohol tolerance. I dont see why kiwis feel its their right to consume a mind altering substance and then operate an automobile. Having a low tolerance is nicer to the public than zero tolerance, so no one really has a right to complain.

Disclaimer: I have a one beer or wine before driving limit, have never exceeded that, and have never failed a breath test. I drink infrequently, and will often opt for non-alcoholic beverages if i know im driving.

[zero 1162]

you didn't get attacked but the data sure was,

anyone can make statistics say anything they want

i.e." have you bashed your wife in the last 36hrs" yes/no

hell I could show you statistics that made you an idiot if you didn't buy all the bruce judge ariadne shares you could possibly afford

Most didn't even read the data, as was evident by some of the posts in that thread.

Yes, statistics and facts can be manipulated, but it doesn't mean you ignore every single fact or statistic if it disagrees with your mantra.

Fact analysis and statistic analysis will always reveal how accurate they are.

You are a cynic and I get that, but it doesn't change that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around.

[zero 1162]

the new limit just seems to be more about money than directly affecting the biggest categories of death by accident which I would be targeting my resources at if in charge

I would say a big part of the decision was political, as the opposition parties had been calling for a lower limit for a very long time, and National was being accused of (and rightly so) of being lobbied by the hospitality industry.

National will have wanted to blunt that particular attack, which is probably why they took so long to do it.

Even after having all the evidence, they still went and conducted another study which meant they could delay the inevitable for another two years.

[kwhelan 241]

I would say a big part of the decision was political, as the opposition parties had been calling for a lower limit for a very long time, and National was being accused of (and rightly so) of being lobbied by the hospitality industry.

National will have wanted to blunt that particular attack, which is probably why they took so long to do it.

Even after having all the evidence, they still went and conducted another study which meant they could delay the inevitable for another two years.

So you are in agreement with my original statement then, I was right to be cynical of the police managers comments he's trying to justify a political decision with questionable road safety figures

and yes I am a cynic and a conspirator but I think life is actually pretty simple and when you question and put common sense to most things its actually pretty obvious.

human nature will never change

the world is full of sheep and the strong always want to control the weak masses, I do question everything and am probably glass half full mentality, but a realist.

the fact that most people in the world follow some/any religion confirms how easily led people are.

knowing how badly the press behave the police manager was probably grossly misquoted anyway.

I am very much anti drink driving and have lost close friends because of it,

I certainly don't have a mantra about anything and if my ideals are shown to be wrong in a convincing way I'm more than happy to change views but they have to make common sense to me first.

I just wish people actually stopped and considered how much authority lies to them

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

I disagree with the impact many say on the media on the effects to hospitality. My best mate runs a pub and worked at many over the years and agrees with me.

Gone are the days of two or three beers after work, I agree.

But those people havent stopped drinking and gone home at 5pm, but have stayed at work or gone to the pub up the road till 8pm or more and had 7 or 8 beers instead of the two or three hey if you going to pay for a taxi might as well let your hair down a little more

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

Statistics stack up the most probable cause for all cases reviewed when it comes to all these road tolls.

Look at countries stats where alcs is banned for national road tolls?

[gjm 3258]

Swedish drivers are strictly advised to not drive with any alcohol in their bloodstream. You can be imprisoned for up to 6 months for having up to 0.02% alcohol in your blood; over 0.02% and up to 0.10% can see a 3 year sentence. Repeat offenders (who typically, worldwide, make up the majority of drink-drivers) are treated more harshly.

Less than 0.25% of drivers breathalysed in Sweden return a positive result.

Sweden has a population more than double that of NZ, yet has around the same number of road deaths. In 2012, just one person under the age of 7 died in road traffic accidents. The Swedish toll is dropping.

Take into account the weather over there, and this becomes even more remarkable. However, driving standards are immeasurably higher than in NZ, and road construction carries a safety first, convenience second approach.

Speed limits in Sweden are determined by a number of (sensible) factors. Main arterial multi-carriageway roads are 110 or 120km/h, and speed limits for other roads are assigned on a case by case basis, not arbitrarily as over here, and can be as low as 30km/h in populated areas. That said, there's not much attention to speed limits on motorways and police turn a blind eye provided you're not being dangerous, so you're unlikely to be stopped for 126 at 3 in the morning, for example. However, exceed a 30km/h limit and you will be stopped and fined. The speed limit and punishment fit the circumstances.

[kwhelan 241]

Swedish drivers are strictly advised to not drive with any alcohol in their bloodstream. You can be imprisoned for up to 6 months for having up to 0.02% alcohol in your blood; over 0.02% and up to 0.10% can see a 3 year sentence. Repeat offenders (who typically, worldwide, make up the majority of drink-drivers) are treated more harshly.

Less than 0.25% of drivers breathalysed in Sweden return a positive result.

thats really interesting, I wonder how much social economics and intelligence pays a part, I would suspect most of the population are highly paid, and educated drive very late model cars and are generally more careful and considerate as a nation. Plus they wouldn't have many foreigners that drive on the wrong side of the road. Theyre one of those countries that are almost incomparable to NZ for statistics in anything where we more match AUS. I wonder what their alcohol intake per person is compared to ours,

Not to say we couldnt strive to achieve that level but we have to be realistic with what we can do with our limited taxes and resources. A lot of this country don't even have licenses or insurance or road worthy cars. what is there minimum driving age?

I read we are expecting 50,000 Chinese to visit in Feb for their big holiday season. thats a lot of planes lets hope they are all on bus tours down south

[gjm 3258]

Swedes start 'practicing' driving at 16, with a full license available from 18.

Median salaries are comparable - NZ ~$51000, Sweden ~$53000 (equivalent). Swedish income tax is 29%, but taxation is a combination of local and national taxes, so this is an approximation based on median salary.

Even alcohol consumption isn't that different: NZ 10.9l per year, Sweden 9.2l per year. (Pure alcohol, aged 15+. Source: Wikipedia.)

Let's face it. We're pretty crap over here.

[polley 916]

I'm also led to believe Swedish girls are much better looking. They also have many crazy turbo bmws.

[zero 1162]

So you are in agreement with my original statement then, I was right to be cynical of the police managers comments he's trying to justify a political decision with questionable road safety figures

No.

The data already existed, but National didn't act on it.

They only acted after being pressured, and even then they delayed it by over two years with excuses of needing more data.

and yes I am a cynic and a conspirator but I think life is actually pretty simple and when you question and put common sense to most things its actually pretty obvious.

human nature will never change

the world is full of sheep and the strong always want to control the weak masses, I do question everything and am probably glass half full mentality, but a realist.

the fact that most people in the world follow some/any religion confirms how easily led people are.

knowing how badly the press behave the police manager was probably grossly misquoted anyway.

I am very much anti drink driving and have lost close friends because of it,

I certainly don't have a mantra about anything and if my ideals are shown to be wrong in a convincing way I'm more than happy to change views but they have to make common sense to me first.

I just wish people actually stopped and considered how much authority lies to them

It's good to question everything, but not to ignore everything otherwise you never learn anything.

The person who believes every single thing they hear is just as bad as the person who ignores everything they hear.

[zero 1162]

I read we are expecting 50,000 Chinese to visit in Feb for their big holiday season. thats a lot of planes lets hope they are all on bus tours down south

Here is something you might find interesting;

Q) Which country's tourists are involved in the most crashes on our roads, where they are at fault?

[gjm 3258]

Logically, it'll be the visitors who drive most. Chinese visit and holiday here, but generally travel in taxis and buses. Only a small percentage spend any significant time outside of urban centres while not in a significant group.

So - who's the most common visitor? West Islanders, perhaps? Or one or another group of Europeans?

[kwhelan 241]

Swedes start 'practicing' driving at 16, with a full license available from 18.

Median salaries are comparable - NZ ~$51000, Sweden ~$53000 (equivalent). Swedish income tax is 29%, but taxation is a combination of local and national taxes, so this is an approximation based on median salary.

Even alcohol consumption isn't that different: NZ 10.9l per year, Sweden 9.2l per year. (Pure alcohol, aged 15+. Source: Wikipedia.)

Let's face it. We're pretty crap over here.

been a couple of recent road deaths in papers , one baby not strapped in car seat, doub't they get that in sweden and we have numerous crashes where there are 8 onboard a toyota estima dressed in bright floral shirts with half flat tyres that are travelling to a funeral somewhere out of town, bet sweden isnt full of imported japanese people carriers loaded to the max, just mum and dad and little heidi/sven

then there was the 3x the limit driver with 2 other adults onboard and 3 kids in the car unbelted again who got ticketed,sweden? not likely

I would also wonder about there rail or shipping for freight, do they have the same amount of logging trucks mixing with joe public on the napier/taupo/gisborne road for example. I'm not saying trucks cause the crashes but its not a good mix.

you cannot compare the 2 countries in my opinion

[gjm 3258]

been a couple of recent road deaths in papers , one baby not strapped in car seat, doub't they get that in sweden and we have numerous crashes where there are 8 onboard a toyota estima dressed in bright floral shirts with half flat tyres that are travelling to a funeral somewhere out of town, bet sweden isnt full of imported japanese people carriers loaded to the max, just mum and dad and little heidi/sven

then there was the 3x the limit driver with 2 other adults onboard and 3 kids in the car unbelted again who got ticketed,sweden? not likely

I would also wonder about there rail or shipping for freight, do they have the same amount of logging trucks mixing with joe public on the napier/taupo/gisborne road for example. I'm not saying trucks cause the crashes but its not a good mix.

you cannot compare the 2 countries in my opinion

Other than the logging trucks (there is significant logging in Sweden) everything you say is road user attitude which is, imo, one of the biggest failings in NZ.

I don't know what the average 'size' of a person is in NZ, but there are stereotypes which aren't helped by squeezing four of the larger members of NZ society into a Mazda Familia, possibly with luggage in the boot. Now, the car I saw this morning may have been air-bagged and riding low, or it may have been massively overloaded which is why virtually the entire top of the tyres were in the wheel arch and hidden from view. It was wallowing all over the place and the driver was trying to maintain 100km/h or better.

I've driven in many countries around the world, but it seems NZ has a significantly higher proportion of road users with a blasé attitude to what they are doing, be that unroadworthy vehicles, overloading, riding motorcycles without protection, using phones while driving, just generally not paying attention, or being unaware of anything going on around them. This approach is the result of long-term negligence on the part of authorities; it doesn't happen overnight, and (at present) nothing appears to be happening to turn this around.

[zero 1162]

Logically, it'll be the visitors who drive most. Chinese visit and holiday here, but generally travel in taxis and buses. Only a small percentage spend any significant time outside of urban centres while not in a significant group.

So - who's the most common visitor? West Islanders, perhaps? Or one or another group of Europeans?

Good guess.

Yes, out of all tourists it is Australian tourists who cause the most crashes on our roads.