Newly purchased 135i running badly - beginning of a saga?

[SteveArmy90 55]

Just bought a Newly imported 08 135i which has done 50,000km. Test drove perfectly. The day after getting home, the car cranked a lot before starting and ran like a dog for 1-2min then came right. The starting issue has been happening since (randomly), irrespective of the car being cold or hot.

Now, today, 3 days after purchase, I'm driving along and go to pull away from a T intersection. The car shudders, has no power, and sounds absolutely terrible. I got out and recorded a video, which you'll find below. It sounds like it's not firing at all on one or two cylinders. Stopping the engine and re-starting fixed it. I have extensively read about these problems and it looks like the infamous injectors. The hard part is that the car isn't throwing any codes on the i-drive screen and no check engine light yet. Hmmm.

Now, the dealer coincidentally texted me today saying he hoped the car is going well. I politely told him how the car was going and told him I'd email him a vid. Sent it to him and now we wait. I have a mechanical warranty but it would be mint if they stepped up and fixed it.

Here's the vid!

 

I'll update the thread as I hear. If you have had the same issues or have any suggestions on how to navigate it with the dealer, I'd be very grateful to hear from you. 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

I'd put the dealer on notice regarding the problem in writing. Then get it to the closest BMW dealer or specialist to have the fault properly investigated. Make sure the dealer agrees for you to do this at his cost, or have the vehicle towed back to Auckland for repair at his expense.

[M3AN 4016]

Your video didn't load for me, or at least it didn't after 60 seconds.

How much do you love this particular car? I personally wouldn't bother looking to get it fixed, assuming the dealer is licensed just take the car back, get your money back and find the next one. This is a legal entitlement, don't squander it by holding on to the car or accepting another course of action. Once you have your money back, if the dealer fixes it on their dime to your satisfaction and makes the car available for sale again then you can enter into a new purchase arrangement. The point being here that you need to take action to shift the risk (ownership) back to the dealer. It's better that the dealer has a broken car to worry about than you.

If on the other hand you love this particular car or simply can't be without it then you'll need to find a compromise with the dealer but that should never involve your mechanical warranty. You're entitled to a full refund (including any financing establishment fees and on road costs, warranty etc) so you're doing the dealer a favour if you accept any other course of action, use that to your advantage (temporary use of another car etc, etc).

Good luck, sucks when this type of thing happens.

Edited October 2, 2018 by M3AN

[SteveArmy90 55]

Thank you B.M.W Ltd. The dealer just contacted me and offered to have it fixed at a mechanic close to me. Good on them! Hopefully they can diagnose it with no CEL! 

[Matth5 471]

Could just be one of the common faults that can happen with the car. Just make sure it gets fixed by someone reputable and the repair is done properly. Personally I'd only go through the hassle of returning the car if I was unhappy with the repair. 

Things break on these cars, one issue doesn't make the car a lemon. 

[SteveArmy90 55]

Here is a youtube Video, hope that Works!.

 

46 minutes ago, M3AN said:

If on the other hand you love this particular car or simply can't be without it then you'll need to find a compromise with the dealer but that should never involve your mechanical warranty. You're entitled to a full refund (including any financing establishment fees and on road costs, warranty etc) so you're doing the dealer a favour if you accept any other course of action, use that to your advantage (temporary use of another car etc, etc).

Good luck, sucks when this type of thing happens.

Thank you, that looks like really good advice. At this point I will stick with it. Not for love of the car as much as benefit of the doubt that it's bad luck. I traded my old car, paid a larger deposit to get the difference in equity balanced and some extra to take the repayments down. It's quite a complicated setup and i'm not sure how easy reversing it all is - Do I get my old car back? Do i keep the loan and get another car of equivalent value? etc etc. If I'm still having massive issues affecting it's drivability in a few weeks, I will definitely follow your suggested avenues. 

 

26 minutes ago, Matth5 said:

Could just be one of the common faults that can happen with the car. Just make sure it gets fixed by someone reputable and the repair is done properly. Personally I'd only go through the hassle of returning the car if I was unhappy with the repair. 

Things break on these cars, one issue doesn't make the car a lemon. 

Definitely. I understand that. I knew that they had issues, and went into it thinking that something will happen somewhere along the line. I was just surprised that it was this early in KM's, though I suppose 10 years has passed so time could take its toll. I'm definitely not considering it a lemon.

 At this point I'm happy fixing it, and the point of the post was to show my process in what happened with the car and how the dealer handled it, in hopes of other people's reference in the future. I'll post what happened. 

As stated above, the dealer contacted me and wants to fix it. He's arranging it so I take it that it'll be on their dime. All is well!!!!

[M3AN 4016]

Second video worked for me.

And yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the car is a lemon or that the dealer is dishonest!

It's perfectly reasonable to give the dealer an opportunity to fix it, especially if they're forthcoming with the offer. However don't assume they're intending to do it at no cost to you, you need that verified explicitly in writing. You should confirm that:

1. They're making it their responsibility to fix it; and,
2. They're not going to rely on your warranty to have it fixed; and,
3. You're going to get another vehicle whilst it's being fixed (your trade-in might be a good option but dealer is responsible for insurance); and,
4. If it takes longer than xxx to properly fix you have the right to walk away; and,
5. At your expense you can get the fix verified by a BMW dealer/independent of your choice.

If the original purchase is complex or costly (e.g. repaying a loan in full before the term was up) to unwind the courts/arbitrator is likely to apportion them between both parties and you'd end up paying 20% to 30% and the dealer the rest (they carry most of the burdon).

It seems all parties are being reasonable but keep in the back of your mind point #4 above - you don't want this saga to go on for months or for the dealer to decide it's too costly to proceed (whilst you still own the car!). Reasonable people can become quite unreasonable in a short space of time if conditions are unfavorable.

Hopefully it's a quick fix!

[SteveArmy90 55]

Thank you for your insight M3an. I send them emails about things and they like to ring me back. I'll make sure to get it in writing, even if I have to directly ask them. I hope it's a quick fix, too! I really appreciate all of your answers. 

[m325i 709]

But seriously do you have an aftermarket warranty, because if you don't i would buy one today if I were you. 

[SteveArmy90 55]

? Perfect. Yes, the car came with a 3 year autosure warranty. I'm ringing them today asking for the policy as I only got an A4 piece of paper briefly explaining it. 

[jasera94 29]

I Bought my 135i and had the exact same Issue. Always happened when opening it up just slightly that it went to limp mode. also had no lights up because it would re-set when turned off. I changed plugs and Coils and ran sweet as. Auto sure wont cover those but FSP Euro does a pretty good deal on an ignition kit. Maybe see if the seller will go halves? 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

39 minutes ago, jasera94 said:

I Bought my 135i and had the exact same Issue. Always happened when opening it up just slightly that it went to limp mode. also had no lights up because it would re-set when turned off. I changed plugs and Coils and ran sweet as. Auto sure wont cover those but FSP Euro does a pretty good deal on an ignition kit. Maybe see if the seller will go halves? 

The "actual" fault needs to be determined first before you start throwing money at it. 95% of fixing something is diagnosing the fault accurately before attempting to apply the fix to get the intended result.

[qube 3570]

I wouldnt go halves with a dealer. It should be running sweet and its their problem at least for the first few months

[jasera94 29]

1 hour ago, qube said:

I wouldnt go halves with a dealer. It should be running sweet and its their problem at least for the first few months

Sorry yes I agree didn't see the dealer part at first. 

[SteveArmy90 55]

It's booked in at Masterton on Thursday - time will tell. Without a fault code (unless it silently logged one?), I'm imagining they will just check continuity of coils and maybe test injectors/change plugs maybe. I'm not them, though! It ran sweet as today.

 

4 hours ago, jasera94 said:

Always happened when opening it up just slightly that it went to limp mode.

Would it throw a light for limp mode, though? It was exactly that scenario. I had been driving a back road with the paddleshift, reasonably lazily, just using the torque. The engine would have definitely been busier than normal but nothing huge. It was 5 min into town after that at the T intersection that it did it. I can't even get my OBD reader to work with it so I'll just have to leave it to the mechanics and wait and see!

[Herbmiester 923]

BEst to see what the actual problem, high probability that its coil or plug related. Easy fix no need to return the car. BTW if it is a dead coil, then the other 5 probably aren't far behind. 

[qube 3570]

lets hope its the fuel injectors and you get it fixed free!

[Olaf 3317]

14 hours ago, jasera94 said:

 I changed plugs and Coils and ran sweet as. Auto sure wont cover those but FSP Euro does a pretty good deal on an ignition kit. Maybe see if the seller will go halves? 

Absolutely not.  Day after buying, it's the car dealer's responsibility to put it right to the buyer's satisfaction, or reject the goods.  Dave's advice above is bang-on.  Giving away your rights under the Consumer Guarantees Act needlessly for what?  https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/consumer-guarantees-act

[SteveArmy90 55]

@Olaf, I had a question about CGA if that's alright. I'll update you all first

As a recap, I had contacted the dealer earlier in the week about the hard-starting problem. The vehicle had not coded. The dealer had organised an appointment with a mechanic to diagnose.

I had that appointment today. I paid the mechanic to also do a thorough inspection of the vehicle separately. 

The inspection was clear. He checked the wastegates for noise and the boost readings on some back roads. Along with other visual inspections, All was clear.

Now to the dealer side of things. With regard to hard starting, the car had logged codes but, in the mechanic's words, "not enough for the car to know which cylinder the problem is in, so it just silently logged a fault without a light". You can find a PDF containing the printout that he gave me attached. He resolved to tell the dealer that the car needed new injectors as the fault codes indicated.

 

On the way home, The car threw a massive fit. I went to overtake a car and it cut power. Since that moment, If you apply more than 1/4 throttle in any situation, it does one of the two following things; It cuts at least 2 cylinders out and throws a CEL, OR it puts the big "half engine power" symbol up, and runs smoothly but with reduced power. I finally got an OBD scanner to work and found the following codes: 

 

 

It was at that point that I got cold feet about the car. I rang the dealer and said that I want to return it. Making a long story short, they want to repair the car. I told them that even if they repair it, I want my money back as it is faulty and I don't trust it any more. I explained that I have only done about 1000km (trip home from auckland and two or 3 60km trips), and that if I am going to return it, it will be now. They then switched from "we will fix it" to, "we won't give you a refund". I have told them nicely that I have the right to a refund and that I don't want the car any more. The dealer said that his manager would be in touch tomorrow. I'm currently trawling through the CGA looking to see if they have the right to refuse a refund. I want to be nice, not nasty, and I don't want to be difficult. I just know what I want and am going to push that way as much as I can. Do you have any suggestions on how to navigate this? 

 

 

 

 

 

IMG.pdf

Edited August 24, 2018 by SteveArmy90

[M3AN 4016]

The vehicle is not of "acceptable quality", insist on a refund. They'll probably tell you it's "faulty" and they have the right to try and repair it, that's BS - because it failed immediately after purchase you don't get past the "acceptable quality" test to the "faulty" test. A "fault" might be something that popped up 3 months after purchase, not in week one.

Anyway, sorry to hear this, do try and negotiate with them, it's always the easiest way but make it clear to them you know your rights.

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/cars/finding-the-right-car/buying-car-from-dealer/

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/cars/solving-issues-car-dealer/

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/car-buyers-rights#article-when-things-go-wrong

http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/tt/bs/pages/buyingfromadealer.aspx

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[SteveArmy90 55]

Thank you so much for those links. I have read from that site but not those exact pages, that's really helpful. I do want to negotiate with them but I'm afraid that it will end up with more problems down the line. I would rather refund it and walk away.

They have already offered to fix this and if another problem happens, they will take the car back. I  wanted to accept this and asked him for a time frame (EG another problem within how long? A week, A month, Three months?) and he refused to give me one. Based on that I declined. We'll see. Thank you again for the well wishes. If I get rid of this, I will definitely be getting another BMW. 

[Jacko 2154]

I had my fun with the CGA and the dodgiest slipperiest used car dealer in the land a few years ago - Stick to your guns, stay calm, and dont back down. They will cave in the end. Glenn here put in touch with the automotive equivalent of Liam Neesons character from Taken, who gave me a lot of good advice (and... information) . 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Jacko

[SteveArmy90 55]

Wow, that was a read!

 

[blake12 23]

Surely after 1000km's the dealer doesn't have to accept responsibility? Especially after accepting for the dealer to get the car fixed, and have them spend money. 
You could very well ruin a car in 1000km's if you rev'd it out while cold each morning etc. 
What does the law state re distance put on a new vehicle? 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by blake12

[M3AN 4016]

A lot more than 1000 km's if it's  significant problem. Even if a clutch went at 1000 km's the dealer would be responsible unless they could prove abuse.

Used car dealers don't make money without risk, they carry the risk of the used car being of acceptable quality and free of faults for a reasonable time. "Acceptable" and "reasonable" are deliberately subjective and the favour falls on the buyer which is how it should be.