Newly purchased 135i running badly - beginning of a saga?

[KwS 2425]

[SteveArmy90 55]

Lawyer sent his email giving the dealer a deadline of 21 September to give me a full refund or it'll end up in MVDT or "Common law" <-- I'm assuming that's court. The director of the company that spans the two dealerships replied and, with a brief message, basically said get f**ked. He believes that two injectors is a minor issue and that they shouldn't have to fork out for a proper repair of a full set. He said that the idea of selling a car with wiped codes and a pre-existing problem is absurd and therefore the fair trading act doesn't apply to them... He linked the AA report as well. He then spewed all of the usual bull about dealerships standing by customers and they stand behind their vehicle 100%.

 

My lawyer told me I could email them back and make a compromise if I like, but be careful not to screw it up.

I did so, and told the director that the fact that two injectors is a minor repair in terms of time spent doesn't mean that it's a minor issue. I told them the AA is a visual mechanical inspection and doesn't look at the computer as far as I'm aware. I've had my car all of one day and even that day wasn't trouble free. The dealership lied to me about what was going on, tried to claim against my warranty and failed, and tried to cover up that they changed the repair. They then tried to cheap out on me as much as they could and pull the car out of my sight to do so. That whole fiasco took more than three weeks. I said that clearly doesn't speak to it being a minor issue and the point of a car is to drive it. The fact that I couldn't drive my car that from day two is the definition of it being not fit for purpose and i'm not interested in keeping it.

I proposed a compromise. I proposed that I would accept that fix. I said that the terms of this would be that he guarantees the car against any further issues, injectors or otherwise, that affect its usefulness, for the next 30,000km. If there is an issue, he is to without question give me a full refund of the purchase price and finance exit fees.  I told him that as he clearly stands by the conduct of his staff and believes with them that two injectors is an appropriate repair, I'm sure he would jump at the opportunity to prove that they have sold me a quality vehicle.

I was careful to specify at the end that It's a good-will agreement and that I in no way waive my rights under any consumer law that applies to the purchase.

 

Now, I don't know what kind of freaking Git would accept someone putting more km's and wear on the car, only to risk having to refund it later. I don't think that they'll even think about accepting that, but It should hopefully put a stop to their pride bulls**t. That's what it's intended for. They either stand by their hard line stance that the car's amazing and two injectors is enough, or they don't. If they do accept it, I'd just about take it as a win as it would be peace of mind either way.  Hopefully it's enough for him to just say screw you here's your refund. I'm very ready to take them to the cleaners if they say no.

Even if I don't win, it'll be a good shake up for them because it's not good enough. I can't believe that even the director of this company is willing to listen to how his staff have acted, and deny someone a refund for what must be a meager loss in terms of a dealership's daily revenue. He must not care much about his companies name...

Edited September 16, 2018 by SteveArmy90

[Gaz 1061]

3 hours ago, SteveArmy90 said:

He said that the idea of selling a car with wiped codes and a pre-existing problem is absurd 

 

 

Tried to claim against my warranty and failed, 

You didnt accuse him of selling cars with clearedfault codes did you? Understandably he'd be pissed off cause that's clearly not true otherwise the warranty company would have covered the repair. He is within his rights to ask the warranty if they would cover the repair as the issue could have very well happened after you had picked up the car - that's the risk warranty companies take 

[NZ BMW 368]

17 minutes ago, Gaz said:

You didnt accuse him of selling cars with clearedfault codes did you? Understandably he'd be pissed off cause that's clearly not true otherwise the warranty company would have covered the repair. He is within his rights to ask the warranty if they would cover the repair as the issue could have very well happened after you had picked up the car - that's the risk warranty companies take 

No, that’s not how it works at all. Dealers are on the hook for repairs and cannot have the owner use the warranty, even if they offer to pay the excess. 

[Spudooli 18]

We bought a 2009 E87 130i from a dealer just last week. During purchase discussions, particularly around us both understanding the warranty, the salesperson made it clear to me that "if anything big happens, you can claim on the MBI and we'll pay the excess". This thread immediately jumped to my mind. I told them, that for the next 3 months, if anything big happens, it's all on them and I won't be claiming on any insurance. They just smiled and nodded     

[SteveArmy90 55]

50 minutes ago, Gaz said:

You didnt accuse him of selling cars with clearedfault codes did you?

He was pissed off because my lawyer mentioned selling a faulty car that isn't advertised as faulty under the fair trading act. The word "knowingly" wasn't used in my lawyers email.  I did however say in my big email that the faults could have easily been cleared so that the warranty would pay for fixing the fault when it happened in my hands. I haven't received a reply to that comment yet.

Think about it though, the dealer could easily identify a problem, clear codes, sell me a warranty, then when the problem reoccurs in my hands the warranty has to wear it and the dealer just pays the excess. Just as @Spudooli mentioned. I think that's insurance fraud to the max. I have no idea how he's going to react

Edited September 16, 2018 by SteveArmy90

[SteveArmy90 55]

21 minutes ago, Spudooli said:

We bought a 2009 E87 130i from a dealer just last week. During purchase discussions, particularly around us both understanding the warranty, the salesperson made it clear to me that "if anything big happens, you can claim on the MBI and we'll pay the excess". This thread immediately jumped to my mind. I told them, that for the next 3 months, if anything big happens, it's all on them and I won't be claiming on any insurance. They just smiled and nodded     

Good on you. Specify it early like you did and keep a record of you saying it somewhere. I've got a 5 page long document now of times and dates and statements from people. Even if my statement quoting someone isn't legally significant, a massive document like this could make them look really bad in front of the tribunal. I'm glad this thread could be of some use!

[Gaz 1061]

3 minutes ago, SteveArmy90 said:

He was pissed off because my lawyer mentioned selling a faulty car that isn't advertised as faulty under the fair trading act. The word knowingly wasn't used in my lawyers email.  I did however say in my big email that the faults could have easily been cleared so that the warranty would pay for fixing the fault when it happened in my hands. I haven't received a reply to that comment yet.

Think about it though, the dealer could easily identify a problem, clear codes, sell me a warranty, then any problems that happen in my hands up to $5-8k or whatever it is can be paid for by the warranty and the dealer just pays the excess. Just as @Spudooli mentioned. I think that's insurance fraud to the max. I have no idea how he's going to react

Agreed that would be fraud however they didn't, so its not fraud so by bringing it up are you trying to provoke a reaction? Certainly not the way to go about things

[SteveArmy90 55]

18 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Agreed that would be fraud however they didn't, so its not fraud so by bringing it up are you trying to provoke a reaction? Certainly not the way to go about things

The first fault happened 9km after purchase. The ECU was completely clean of faults before the purchase km's and there were two or three faults happening. They all happened on the 600km trip home. Bit of a freak thing to have all of them suddenly happen at once just after purchase.. I've calmly asked for my money back multiple times, they refused. From then, the process of repair took three weeks. I was nothing but co-operative and professional to them. All that I have done is sit back, take notes and accept everything they say. I've then  passed it all onto my lawyer. I took the car home and my Lawyer sent his letter on the first day that the car could have possibly been fixed. That day was last Tuesday.

They lied to me about changing the repair to a significantly cheaper one once they had to pay for it, they tried to whisk the car away to auckland, and the service manager lied over the phone to me on multiple occasions. I had evidence to the contrary of what he was telling me in my hand in one of the calls. I never accused him of lying even then. 

Even after hearing all of this, the Director used his first email contact with me to accuse me of being extremely uncooperative, with not being happy with the repair and therefore holding the process up substantially.  He stood by his lying staff and, in the most professional language, used his email to blame the fiasco on me and deny any responsibility to the laws on the front page of his sales agreement!

In light of the above, I think it's actually quite appropriate to question their pre-sale practises. You'll see how I worded it when I post it all at the end. It's in no way worded to provoke a reaction. I'm the first to admit my faults but I actually can't think of a way that I could have done this better.

Edits are for readability.

Edited September 16, 2018 by SteveArmy90

[blake12 23]

What a dealer huh. Good luck mate. I hope you are ready to spend the cost of the car again on legal fees if this goes to court. 

[SteveArmy90 55]

On 9/17/2018 at 2:43 PM, blake12 said:

What a dealer huh. Good luck mate. I hope you are ready to spend the cost of the car again on legal fees if this goes to court. 

Thanks mate, I've got a cap on my lawyer's cost. They have produced me with their findings and have told me to go to MVDT first. It's a flat $50 fee and I can go as many times as I want. You're also not allowed a laywer there so that would save on costs too. They have said if that fails, we will take it further. I've given them one final chance to do all 6 injectors or nothing at all.

[Herbmiester 923]

Personally I would just get all 6 injectors done and ask for them to meet half way. They are a known issue, get them done and then you set. If you send the car back then you have to start all over again and injector issues could happen at any time at least this way you will have peace of mind. 

[Jacko 2156]

Stick at em, they will fold.

Dealers are scum, the only reason to buy from them is because the laws are on your side in a situation like this. 

[SteveArmy90 55]

I heard back from the dealer today. The director said that he had talked to multiple people and they all said that he only needed to replace 2 injectors.

I rang BMW Dealerships and asked for any advice. I talked to Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch, and Hastings. Everyone but Hastings/Manawatu declined. Shoutout to Stephen from BMW Manawatu, who actually looked up my car and sent me this service bulletin. I am getting the most up to date diagnosis from motorworks sent to me to confirm that the faults are in two different banks. Please find the bulletin attached to this post ?

[email protected]_20180925_152424.pdf

[e30ftw 410]

Just read the comments regarding dealers claiming faults under your warranty, I bought my 135i last year from a dealership in Auckland and had a check engine light on the way home almost immediately. Turned out it was the HPFP and the dealer had already told me any issues in the first couple months he would pay excess. I almost knew it would have had some issue because he was using it as his daily.

I didn't really think much into it, because it wouldn't cost me to repair it. I took it to the BMW dealer down here and they found the codes and they were historic so it was a prior issue before purchase, yet warranty still covered it and the seller/dealer paid the excess once I sent him the invoice. I even had the pre-purchase inspection done by a BMW dealership in Auckland and they hadn't picked up on it.

Edited September 26, 2018 by e30ftw

[kwhelan 241]

wow that's all kinds of wrong and not something I'd ever considered before,

3 things really , lucky  you took insurance, lucky the insurance wasn't fussy about the historic codes, bloody worthless pre-inspection should be named and shamed so no-one on here gets in the same state

Edited September 30, 2018 by E30 325i Rag-Top
quoting previous post

[SteveArmy90 55]

20 hours ago, e30ftw said:

Just read the comments regarding dealers claiming faults under your warranty, I bought my 135i last year from a dealership in Auckland and had a check engine light on the way home almost immediately. Turned out it was the HPFP and the dealer had already told me any issues in the first couple months he would pay excess. I almost knew it would have had some issue because he was using it as his daily.

I didn't really think much into it, because it wouldn't cost me to repair it. I took it to the BMW dealer down here and they found the codes and they were historic so it was a prior issue before purchase, yet warranty still covered it and the seller/dealer paid the excess once I sent him the invoice. I even had the pre-purchase inspection done by a BMW dealership in Auckland and they hadn't picked up on it.

That's exactly what they told me. Wonder if it's a widespread thing or if we both had the same dealer.....

[SteveArmy90 55]

I sent my MVDT claim off today. I spent full time these last two days compling all emails into a chronological order. Two dealerships ended up sending me the service bulletin. I wrote a cover letter and cited that I wanted to claim a full refund plus compensation for payments made on a car I can't drive. I especially cited section 18 of the CGA and fully justified each point blow by blow. I included my blow-by-blow timeline.

I sent the service bulletins and the latest diagnosis showing 5 rooted injectors to the director of the dealership as well as a notification that I'd applied to the MVDT. I didn't give him the option of repair now. I tried to get him to fix it properly three times. He can take the evidence and choke on it. This bad boy is the product of a lot of hard work and time. Hopefully it pays off!

 

 

[Herbmiester 923]

So if the car goes back what wil you next? Buy another one from someone else?

[KwS 2425]

Probably something reliable, a Corolla maybe 

Edited September 27, 2018 by KwS

[SteveArmy90 55]

10 hours ago, Herbmiester said:

So if the car goes back what wil you next? Buy another one from someone else?

I don't know what I'd get next. I'm trying not to research cars and get the I-wants because I could still end up saddled with this one. NOT a 135i ?

[qube 3570]

buy my M135

btw, can I hire you to do some investigative work?

[kwhelan 241]

2 hours ago, SteveArmy90 said:

I don't know what I'd get next. I'm trying not to research cars and get the I-wants because I could still end up saddled with this one. NOT a 135i ?

bit harsh, as long as you get the checks done and those injectors replaced you end up with a great car, owning BMWs is an expensive hobby that is hard to justify mostly  to those uninitiated ,alfas are worse

[SteveArmy90 55]

3 hours ago, kwhelan said:

bit harsh, as long as you get the checks done and those injectors replaced you end up with a great car, owning BMWs is an expensive hobby that is hard to justify mostly  to those uninitiated ,alfas are worse

Yeah it probably was. I wouldn't have bought the car if I didn't like it! You know how it goes, one bad experience makes them seem cursed ?. I'm a military vehicle collector and it's much the same. Expensive and hard to justify hahaha. Source: M41 

 

[qube 3570]

7 hours ago, SteveArmy90 said:

I don't know what I'd get next.

I think the next thing you need to buy is a phone/camera with auto stabilizer