E87 130i Gearbox Shudder Low RPM - Resolved

[Driftit 2078]

Update:  So this issue as discussed ended up having nothing to do with a Misfire.  It was a quick shudder from the torque converter that can feel just like a misfire.  The confusion came about as multiple issues happened at the same time.  The valvetronic motor needed replacing and a coil pack died.
The main issue is a shudder caused by the GM made torque converter.  A common failure in all vehicles that use this gearbox.  Usually occurs when the gearbox fluid is old or low.

The fix:  A transmission service.  Filled it correctly (took two litres more than came out and is the correct amount).  And an additive from Lubegaurd call anti shudder.  I have had no further issues in the 1000km I have tested.

 

My first issue with my E87.  Strangely I am not angry about it.  Car's been so good that I have had nothing to do on it.

So on Saturday during a trip to Napier I noticed a short vibration under load at lower RPM (2500 to 4000).  Vibration would only last a second then it was gone.  At first I thought it was something mechanical like a gearbox issue or driveshaft donunt.
But the issue is intermittent.  And I noticed a little loss of power when it is occurring.  So it has to be a misfire of some type.  I quick google and it seems pretty common especially for cars doing short trips in the cold.
Well I am doing the shortest of trips in the cold.  Less than 2km's per trip and it's been in the negatives over the last week.

The annoying thing is I am getting no codes.  So if it is a plug, coil pack or injector I have no idea which one.  Does anyone have any tips on hunting them down.
I have tried two of my cheap scan tools with no luck.  Will plug the laptop in and check too.

I have heard these engines are sensitive to what plug is installed.  And the Brits keep talking about injector recalls which I can find nothing about in NZ.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Driftit

[qube 3570]

have you been keeping up with regular oil changes?

could be the vanos solenoids maybe needs cleaning

[GorGasm 563]

Coils I reckon.  It had a rough idle for a while and then got bad enough to misfire higher in the RPM range.  New plugs fixed it, plugs aren't very old so I would hope it's not them.

[Jacko 2156]

Odd that its not throwing a code, if it is ignition they are normally pretty good at picking it up. Definitely use a ISTA etc and not something that just does generic OBD2 codes as BMW use their own for the ignition stuff. 

Intakes not full of oil? My 330 with the dead CCV behaved similarly when intake sensors got soaked, and threw no codes. 

 

If its a silver top, check that the rocker covers not corroded out and coils are arcing straight through, the other common thing is a leaking valvetronic motor seal that dumps oil down the tubes for 3 & 4. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Jacko

[M3AN 4016]

DISA valve slowly going out/stuck? Loss of power in the middle of the rev range and no codes is apparently a common symptom.

To be honest I've only just started reading up on this and my knowledge is immature but that symptom stuck in my head.

 

[Driftit 2078]

Oh I think you got it Chris.

There is a code.  2A43 - Valvetronic Thermal Overload.  Will have a look next chance I get.

Also downloading ISTA+ rather than old INPA that is half German still.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Driftit

[Driftit 2078]

The more I look into that fault the more I think it is rectified by a software update.
The car is going into BMW for a recall item soon anyway.  Got sent a letter about a 90 deg bend in the heating system that is being replaced.

Will see if there is a software update at the same time.

[KwS 2425]

Ugh, Valvetronic issues really put me off these wonderful cars. Trust BMW to make something so complicated with multiple modes of failure.

[Jacko 2156]

Ahhha, a code! That'll make it easier.

Valvetronic for the most part is pretty reliable, considering how complex it is, you get 12 ITBs  Kinda sad that BMW didnt stick with it, is a cool idea (just expensive)

[Driftit 2078]

I still feel like the very short cold trips are fowling her up though. It can't be good for it. 

[qube 3570]

Happy to take it off your hands and put 50kms a day for my work commute if u feel that bad towards the car ?

[Driftit 2078]

Update. It dropped a cylinder yesterday completely. No. 3 coil pack died. Luckily I was 1km around the corner from a wrecker that had one. 

Still running like crap with the same code for the valvetronic motor. 

Ordered a new motor and gasket kit. 6 new coil packs. And a rocker cover gasket from ECS tuning. All for less than what bmw wanted for just the motor. 

[Driftit 2078]

Another update and a surprise. 

Went to fill up the diesel truck at Gull today. Whilst standing there holding the broken trigger lock on the pump handle I noticed a sign where there is usually an ad. 

I filled up the 1 series there the day it started running really bad. Worse than it already was due to the valvetronic. 

I don't think the 95 fuel is at fault. But I think it probably compounded the issue.

Parts should be here this week from ECS. Will find some time in the dark to install them.

[Driftit 2078]

So I replaced the Valvetronic motor today.  While I was at it I replaced the rocker cover gaskets which were weeping.
I did not enjoy this job.  Mostly because I did not have my own tools.

I'm pretty sure the I made the valvetronic motor relearn it's limits.  But not 100%.

However the coils I got from ECS tuning are absolute junk and will be going back.

Now when I started the car I noticed a tick.  Putting my trusty old long screwdriver to my ear I found the tick is coming from Injector number one.  The car has a slight rough idle and the misfire has not gone away.  But it wasn't there before.  So whilst it is noisy I don't think it is causing the misfire (which is gone at high RPM).

Ideas?  Eccentric shaft sensor?

Check the video.  You can here the high speed tick after the RPM drops down.  But it is gone at higher RPM.

https://youtu.be/VsQket5aYYs

[Jacko 2156]

Videos set to private - what coils did you get?

You'll hear the valvetronic motor move to the extremes after a reset, it hits the stops, if it did that it worked.

 

[Driftit 2078]

6 minutes ago, Jacko said:

Videos set to private - what coils did you get?

You'll hear the valvetronic motor move to the extremes after a reset, it hits the stops, if it did that it worked.

 

Changed the video.

The coils were from Bavarian Motorsport
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/ignition-service-kit/12137594937pkt/
The boxes clearly state Made in China with near no other info.

Check this out.  The air in the coilpack has nowhere to go when inserting a plug.  So the plug gets forced out.  The coil packs actually push themselves off the plug in the engine.  Then one of them ballooned out.  I never even plugged them in.

As for the motor.  I have no idea if it reset or not.  I tried the Ignition on and 15 pumps of the gas but there was no response from the motor.  Not sure if INPA can do it.  Don't have ISTA on the device I have with me at the moment.

[Jacko 2156]

Wow... yeah those are trash! 

Noise is odd, Ive never head that one before. Sounds more like a resonance from something rather than an injector?

I havent had any luck with any of the "accelerator" triggered resets,  ISTA and bimmergeeks protools can definitely do it.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jacko

[KwS 2425]

INPA can do it, I used INPA on @NZ_InFernos car with no issues. I cant remember what its called, VVT or something (different from the Vanos settings)

[brenthay 10]

I'm about to buy a set of coils for my 335i, I was looking at the Delphi ones.

Good reviews etc

[NZ_InFerno 371]

Definitely want delphi coils. Fcpeuro has them. 

The valvetronic reset is ignition on(not engine on) and leave for 30 secs then turn off for 30 secs. You will hear a slight whirr noise a second or two after ignition on then a click as it finds the end point and then gain as it comes back. It's a pretty quick motion. 

Don't need to touch accelerator etc while doing it. 

[NZ_InFerno 371]

Also as someone who's chased a vvt issue, if you've done the vvt motor and reset properly, make sure spark plugs are OK and new coils(decent ones) before doing anything else.

Coils seem to have fixed my vvt issue. 

If you still have issues after pm me as I've changed the electronics module and fuses too for the valvetronic so can give you part numbers and where located etc. 

[Driftit 2078]

I reset all the values on the car last night and the rough idle went away.

I drove it 20 km to the Train station this morning and it seemed fine.

But I am running 5 original coils and 1 second hand E90 one.

I am just waiting to hear back from ECS regarding their coils.  They actually took over Bavarian Autosport a few years back.  So they are in house brand.

I want to return them and get Delphi ones.

[Driftit 2078]

So here's a twist.  Located the exact problem over the weekend with the help of my Mrs.

I sent myself off in the wrong direction just by chance.  If the Coil pack and Valvetronic motor had not been playing up at the same time I would have found this issue straight away.  But it took a fresh pair of eyes and some testing to narrow it down.

The issue is not a misfire.  It feels just like one though.  And with the loss of a coil pack at the same time it is what I focused on.

The issue is likely the Torque Converter.  It's low RPM shudder feels just like a misfire.  But changing the car to sport mode virtually eliminates it.  And manual gear selection it is gone.  Which is odd behavior for a misfire.

You can read all about it here.  https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675181#/topics/675181?page=5
Many suggest the same things we all thought.  Plugs, Coils, Valvetronic motor.
His symptoms are identical to mine.

So I ran the info on the box.  Fluid quality is at 23%.  No idea what that means but it can't be that great.

I have ordered a new filter and oil kit for it from FCP.  And may end up chucking some Dr Tranny in too.

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

That's the symptom for a faulty lockup clutch in the torque converter. Usually occurs at around 2,000rpm with light throttle load

[qube 3570]

3 hours ago, Driftit said:

So here's a twist.  Located the exact problem over the weekend with the help of my Mrs.

I sent myself off in the wrong direction just by chance.  If the Coil pack and Valvetronic motor had not been playing up at the same time I would have found this issue straight away.  But it took a fresh pair of eyes and some testing to narrow it down.

The issue is not a misfire.  It feels just like one though.  And with the loss of a coil pack at the same time it is what I focused on.

The issue is likely the Torque Converter.  It's low RPM shudder feels just like a misfire.  But changing the car to sport mode virtually eliminates it.  And manual gear selection it is gone.  Which is odd behavior for a misfire.

You can read all about it here.  https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675181#/topics/675181?page=5
Many suggest the same things we all thought.  Plugs, Coils, Valvetronic motor.
His symptoms are identical to mine.

So I ran the info on the box.  Fluid quality is at 23%.  No idea what that means but it can't be that great.

I have ordered a new filter and oil kit for it from FCP.  And may end up chucking some Dr Tranny in too.

Now that you mention it, i vaguely remember a similar kind of symptom on my old 2010 130i (MY09) with 130ish ks on it before I sold it on. It only happened a few times and went away and put it as coils/spark plugs needing changing. Maybe it was this issue too.