Starting a project car... thoughts?

[Ghost Chip 188]

Hi all!

I’m new here and don’t actually own a BMW (yet? haha) but I’ve been thinking about starting a project car for a few years now and bumped across a 95 320i M Sport with less than 30000kms (going for about 13k). The problem is that it’s an auto and so will want to do a manual swap at some point. A bit overwhelmed from the researching so wanting to get some opinions on whether or not I should take it on. Also worried that it will be way too expensive to do the manual swap / maintain (- also looks like suspension is a common issue?). Would appreciate any of your thoughts/comments/advice. Thanks!

Edited March 5, 2021 by Ghost Chip

[nick496 268]

I personally wouldn't be looking at a low KMs E36 320i for 13k, especially if you're wanting to then just manual swap it.

Better off buying something like this https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/bmw/listing/2985237483?bof=8Z9MJgwM

Which is already manual, has the larger engine, and looks like it's been looked after a bit.

[Eagle 1662]

Wouldn't be worth doing a manual swap on a 320i imo. You'd want at least least the 2.5L or 2.8L engine to make it worth while. 

Repairs largely depend on the condition of the car and how it been looked after. If its really only done 30,000km its likely hasnt been used much and may need a proper service (all fluids, filters etc) and a good inspection on a hoist. 

[Ghost Chip 188]

28 minutes ago, nick496 said:

I personally wouldn't be looking at a low KMs E36 320i for 13k, especially if you're wanting to then just manual swap it.

Better off buying something like this https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/bmw/listing/2985237483?bof=8Z9MJgwM

Which is already manual, has the larger engine, and looks like it's been looked after a bit.

 

25 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Wouldn't be worth doing a manual swap on a 320i imo. You'd want at least least the 2.5L or 2.8L engine to make it worth while. 

Repairs largely depend on the condition of the car and how it been looked after. If its really only done 30,000km its likely hasnt been used much and may need a proper service (all fluids, filters etc) and a good inspection on a hoist. 

Thanks for your replies! Sorry, really new to this so have some questions.

Curious to understand why you guys think it wouldn’t be worth the hassle? I think in my head I automatically rank the lower kms as better because it was less used, so may have less issues compared to something that has higher kms. Also thought that it would be a good car to start a project on since it’s stock and has low kms.

I’m hoping to use it as a daily drive so not really wanting a bigger engine (fuel costs and all that). Not sure if that’s good or not really worth it in the long run?

Thanks again!

[Eagle 1662]

A 320i makes far less power compared to the 2.5 or 2.8L without having noticeable difference in fuel economy (could even be worse depending on your driving). Just doesn't make financial sense to do a proper manual conversion on it especially since its only to be used a a daily driver. You will also loose a chunk of $ if and when you sold it, as a manual converted 320i isn't that valuable or sort after.

As above you are better off spending ~10k on a manual 325i or 328i and using the change or maintenance or to tidy it. If you want a project car then you'd be off getting something that's cheap in reasonable condition which you can learn to fix up. You'd likely still spend less than that 320i and have a better car once done.

Kilometres don't mean all that much, the 30,000km may have been short trips around town\sitting in traffic\getting in and out.  Condition and service history are far more important. A looked after car with higher k's is generally always better bet than a neglected lower k example. You also pay a large premium for very low k's and usually still require $ to be spent things that wear with age eg fluids, filters, tyres, suspension bushings.

[Eagle 1662]

If you want daily driver E36 with decent fuel economy then you be far better off going for a 318i with the DOHC M42 or M44 engine instead. Far easier to work on, less problematic and cheaper to fix than 6 cylinders.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Eagle

[Jacko 2154]

^ As above, totally not worth it on a 320 unless it was dirttt cheap and you had some sorta sentimental connection to the car in particular, regardless of km (which mean next to nothing on a 26 year old car, unless its been serviced regularly every single rubber or plastic part on the engine will be toast)

[Ghost Chip 188]

1 hour ago, Eagle said:

A 320i makes far less power compared to the 2.5 or 2.8L without having noticeable difference in fuel economy (could even be worse depending on your driving). Just doesn't make financial sense to do a proper manual conversion on it especially since its only to be used a a daily driver. You will also loose a chunk of $ if and when you sold it, as a manual converted 320i isn't that valuable or sort after.

As above you are better off spending ~10k on a manual 325i or 328i and using the change or maintenance or to tidy it. If you want a project car then you'd be off getting something that's cheap in reasonable condition which you can learn to fix up. You'd likely still spend less than that 320i and have a better car once done.

Kilometres don't mean all that much, the 30,000km may have been short trips around town\sitting in traffic\getting in and out.  Condition and service history are far more important. A looked after car with higher k's is generally always better bet than a neglected lower k example. You also pay a large premium for very low k's and usually still require $ to be spent things that wear with age eg fluids, filters, tyres, suspension bushings.

 

1 hour ago, Eagle said:

If you want daily driver E36 with decent fuel economy then you be far better off going for a 318i with the DOHC M42 or M44 engine instead. Far easier to work on, less problematic and cheaper to fix than 6 cylinders.

Thanks again for the reply! 

That makes sense, although, could you please clarify a bit more on why the manual conversion in a daily driver wouldn’t be worth it? 

True, I thought that the 320i would be a good foundation to start a project on (2L, straight six, with RWD and LSD). If there’s not much of a difference jumping to 2.5/2.8, then I feel like I’d prefer that over the smaller engine in the 318i. With regards to the “easier to work on, less problematic, and cheaper” did you mean that for just the engine or the car as a whole?

Big question but between the 325i, 328i, and the M3, what would you recommend and why? Any others that you would recommend? Sorta going for a car that I can tinker around with and has enough juice that I can enjoy cruising around in but not too problematic, thirsty, and mega expensive to maintain / repair.

Thanks heaps for being patient!

14 minutes ago, Jacko said:

^ As above, totally not worth it on a 320 unless it was dirttt cheap and you had some sorta sentimental connection to the car in particular, regardless of km (which mean next to nothing on a 26 year old car, unless its been serviced regularly every single rubber or plastic part on the engine will be toast)

Thanks for the reply! Fair. I’m not really familiar with pricing so didn’t know if it was worth it or not. Similar question to above. Any recommendations and why?

[aja540i 1906]

I used to daily  drive a 94 318is 2 door manual and that was a great little car, cheap-ish to run, cheap to work on / fix, fun enough to drive and just a great handling car with a bit of potential for other mods if you feel like throwing some money at it. I would recommend one of those over a manual swapped 320i every day of the week and you will be spending less than half your budget for a decent one. 

If you are after something a bit more substantial then I would hold out for a tidy 328i and do a conversion on that if you need to, no more effort than the 320i but a much more desirable end result!

[M3AN 4016]

Whatever you do, do not spend $13k on a 26 year old 320i, regardless of the mileage and condition.

If you want an E36, find a 328 for less than $5k and spend the $8k change you'll have on a manual conversion and a complete renovation. You'll have a proper project and change for beers.

 

[Eagle 1662]

58 minutes ago, Ghost Chip said:

 

Thanks again for the reply! 

That makes sense, although, could you please clarify a bit more on why the manual conversion in a daily driver wouldn’t be worth it? 

True, I thought that the 320i would be a good foundation to start a project on (2L, straight six, with RWD and LSD). If there’s not much of a difference jumping to 2.5/2.8, then I feel like I’d prefer that over the smaller engine in the 318i. With regards to the “easier to work on, less problematic, and cheaper” did you mean that for just the engine or the car as a whole?

Big question but between the 325i, 328i, and the M3, what would you recommend and why? Any others that you would recommend? Sorta going for a car that I can tinker around with and has enough juice that I can enjoy cruising around in but not too problematic, thirsty, and mega expensive to maintain / repair.

Thanks heaps for being patient!

Thanks for the reply! Fair. I’m not really familiar with pricing so didn’t know if it was worth it or not. Similar question to above. Any recommendations and why?

I meant a manual conversion on 13k 320i for a daily driver isnt worth it, not that a manual for a daily driver isnt worth it in general . A 318is isnt far off from a 320i power wise and would work better for a daily driver. Costs are less for 4 cylinder engines, rest of the car is largely the same. 

325i aint bad, its certainly the most robust M5X engine for a few reasons incl iron block but its built more towards top end performance. To me the 328i certainly is the best all rounder and nicest to live with,  good low\mid range torque and decent mpg, alloy block so lighter but not an engine you want to overheat . I doubt a M3 is in your budget (25k+) but they are more of a weekend toy.    

Id recommend driving a few examples within your budget and decide what suits you.    

[Sammo 2544]

Sounds like you have a good budget.

30,000km on an E36, even if legit (it is an import) - every other piece of plastic and rubber in it will still be shagged, makes little sense to pay a premium for such low kms and to hack it up.

Get a manual 328i coupe, 200km+ no worries, preferably partially sorted, drive it 3 months then tidy it up and personalise to your taste.

Manual swapping is hard to recommend unless you already have all the parts and can DIY. Otherwise you're dealing with sourcing a good box (not a G220), all parts, loads of labour, correct coding and tuning and then LVVTA certification. 

[Ghost Chip 188]

1 hour ago, aja540i said:

I used to daily  drive a 94 318is 2 door manual and that was a great little car, cheap-ish to run, cheap to work on / fix, fun enough to drive and just a great handling car with a bit of potential for other mods if you feel like throwing some money at it. I would recommend one of those over a manual swapped 320i every day of the week and you will be spending less than half your budget for a decent one. 

If you are after something a bit more substantial then I would hold out for a tidy 328i and do a conversion on that if you need to, no more effort than the 320i but a much more desirable end result!

Thanks for the reply! Looks like I should hold out for a 328i!

42 minutes ago, M3AN said:

Whatever you do, do not spend $13k on a 26 year old 320i, regardless of the mileage and condition.

If you want an E36, find a 328 for less than $5k and spend the $8k change you'll have on a manual conversion and a complete renovation. You'll have a proper project and change for beers.

 

Thanks for the reply! Sounds like a great idea and spare change for beers will always be one of the priorities haha

36 minutes ago, Eagle said:

I meant a manual conversion on 13k 320i for a daily driver isnt worth it, not that a manual for a daily driver isnt worth it in general . A 318is isnt far off from a 320i power wise and would work better for a daily driver. Costs are less for 4 cylinder engines, rest of the car is largely the same. 

325i aint bad, its certainly the most robust M5X engine for a few reasons incl iron block but its built more towards top end performance. To me the 328i certainly is the best all rounder and nicest to live with,  good low\mid range torque and decent mpg, alloy block so lighter but not an engine you want to overheat . I doubt a M3 is in your budget (25k+) but they are more of a weekend toy.    

Id recommend driving a few examples within your budget and decide what suits you.    

Ahhh, thanks so much for your input! Definitely sounds like the 328i is the way to go. Haha yeah, had a look around and definitely not in my budget. Was more going for something within* 10k that I can start working on. Unless there’s good resale value now or in the future, can’t really reason spending more than that for now. Looks like I need to do some hunting!

*Edit: or around

Edited March 6, 2021 by Ghost Chip

[M3AN 4016]

Project 328i manual: https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/bmw/listing/2985237483

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by M3AN

[Ghost Chip 188]

5 minutes ago, Sammo said:

Sounds like you have a good budget.

30,000km on an E36, even if legit (it is an import) - every other piece of plastic and rubber in it will still be shagged, makes little sense to pay a premium for such low kms and to hack it up.

Get a manual 328i coupe, 200km+ no worries, preferably partially sorted, drive it 3 months then tidy it up and personalise to your taste.

Manual swapping is hard to recommend unless you already have all the parts and can DIY. Otherwise you're dealing with sourcing a good box (not a G220), all parts, loads of labour, correct coding and tuning and then LVVTA certification. 

Wouldn’t have realised this if it wasn’t for you guys pointing it out. Makes sense now after you guys explained it

Fair enough. Saw some guides online and it looked like a big (and difficult) job but seemed somewhat doable for a beginner if you put the mahi in. Although, like what you said, sourcing parts can also be a hassle, which I found out today from researching more. Should’ve taken more into account that most of the people in the guides were based in the US haha.

[leichtbau 525]

18 minutes ago, M3AN said:

Project 328i manual: https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/bmw/listing/2985237483

 

Keenly watching this one, sat for a couple of weeks at $12K without much action.

[Ghost Chip 188]

33 minutes ago, leichtbau said:

Keenly watching this one, sat for a couple of weeks at $12K without much action.

Hopefully it doesn’t get too expensive eh!

[M3AN 4016]

3 hours ago, leichtbau said:

Keenly watching this one, sat for a couple of weeks at $12K without much action.

Yeah, it doesn't look too bad tbh although I can't see it being worth close to 12 but I'm not really across the market these days.

2 hours ago, Ghost Chip said:

Hopefully it doesn’t get too expensive eh!

If it were what I was looking for I might consider somewhere between 8 and 9, depending on inspection. I'd be looking to negotiate down from there not up, it's 26 years old and might as well have a zero safety rating. The reality is that the only buyers for these now are enthusiasts, I can't see the market supporting many at 10+.

But as I say, I'm not in the market so there may be more informed people that can correct me.

[Ghost Chip 188]

2 hours ago, M3AN said:

Yeah, it doesn't look too bad tbh although I can't see it being worth close to 12 but I'm not really across the market these days.

If it were what I was looking for I might consider somewhere between 8 and 9, depending on inspection. I'd be looking to negotiate down from there not up, it's 26 years old and might as well have a zero safety rating. The reality is that the only buyers for these now are enthusiasts, I can't see the market supporting many at 10+.

But as I say, I'm not in the market so there may be more informed people that can correct me.

Yeah, haven’t really considered the safety rating at all, maybe I should hahaha. All good, thanks again for your advice!

[HalfJobHarry 106]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:04 PM, Ghost Chip said:

 

Thanks for your replies! Sorry, really new to this so have some questions.

Curious to understand why you guys think it wouldn’t be worth the hassle? I think in my head I automatically rank the lower kms as better because it was less used, so may have less issues compared to something that has higher kms. Also thought that it would be a good car to start a project on since it’s stock and has low kms.

I’m hoping to use it as a daily drive so not really wanting a bigger engine (fuel costs and all that). Not sure if that’s good or not really worth it in the long run?

Thanks again!

I'm with the rest of the folks here..... 

I don't want to do any bubble bursting but a 320 is so commonplace and 'ordinary' , that it's hard to imagine why anybody would go through the effort of a manual swap etc. 

Manual swapping a 130i or something (although manual examples or not that rare) is something I can get on board with...  

the I6 3.0L are not that thirsty at all when cruising. 

[leichtbau 525]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:22 PM, M3AN said:

Yeah, it doesn't look too bad tbh although I can't see it being worth close to 12 but I'm not really across the market these days.

If it were what I was looking for I might consider somewhere between 8 and 9, depending on inspection. I'd be looking to negotiate down from there not up..

I just so happened across this car today, photos don't do it justice. It should get close to what the Mora Metallic example went for (based on condition) hopefully the flat-peak facebook e36 gang don't get wind of it.

[Ghost Chip 188]

7 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

I'm with the rest of the folks here..... 

I don't want to do any bubble bursting but a 320 is so commonplace and 'ordinary' , that it's hard to imagine why anybody would go through the effort of a manual swap etc. 

Manual swapping a 130i or something (although manual examples or not that rare) is something I can get on board with...  

the I6 3.0L are not that thirsty at all when cruising. 

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, from everyone else’s reply it definitely sounds like it. Good thing I asked first before impulse buying.

I just had a look at the 130i, not feeling it to be honest haha.

[M3AN 4016]

46 minutes ago, Ghost Chip said:

I just had a look at the 130i, not feeling it to be honest haha.

They're a lot more fun than they look. Unless you hate how they look it would be worth taking a couple for a drive.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

15 hours ago, M3AN said:

They're a lot more fun than they look. Unless you hate how they look it would be worth taking a couple for a drive.

I used to intensely dislike the 1 series in general ...until I actually drove one. I didn't think anything would feel nicer than the E46 330i ...but the 1 series converted me. Granted...from certain angles sometimes I'm mixed on the look of the lines...but both the 130 and the 135 are wonderfully fun cars. I think the 130i in manual is a brilliant choice.. The N52 will long be remembered as probably he last great N/A engine BMW ever made. 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by HalfJobHarry
spelling

[HalfJobHarry 106]

12 hours ago, Ghost Chip said:

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, from everyone else’s reply it definitely sounds like it. Good thing I asked first before impulse buying.

I just had a look at the 130i, not feeling it to be honest haha.

As M3MAN says...drive one before deciding....the autos are good but the manual versions are epic.