Starting a project car... thoughts?

[HalfJobHarry 106]

5 hours ago, Ghost Chip said:

@HalfJobHarry it’s because people just buy them anyway so it becomes the norm

Yes...there is an alarming habit here to buy something in any state and literally run/thrash it into the ground. 

[balancerider 758]

A 15 year old E46 in the UK is odds on rusty though. Something's gotta kill it...nothing's cheap in this country.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:45 PM, balancerider said:

A 15 year old E46 in the UK is odds on rusty though. Something's gotta kill it...nothing's cheap in this country.

The only real issue I ever tended to see was under the arches...and especially on silver ones for some reason....that 'lip' under the arches seemed to be a weak spot. Ironically, bodywork repair seems to be fairly reasonably priced here...

There is no way the difference between a little bit of non structural rust and rust free justifies the insane price difference. Nothing is cheap here because as a "recent" (~ 5 years) arrival I feel the shopping habits drive that.....nobody seems to question or shop around and I feel retailers bank on the fact that 99% of people just stump up the cash, whatever silly price they are quoted. Anyway , I digress  

[Ghost Chip 188]

If only this came with AC 😂

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-3069463088.htm

[Sammo 2544]

1 hour ago, Ghost Chip said:

If only this came with AC 😂

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-3069463088.htm

And another 100hp

[Ghost Chip 188]

1 hour ago, Sammo said:

And another 100hp

Then I’d need to get a quote for my kidney

[Sammo 2544]

@Ghost Chip

Seen this one? Looks like a bit of a project but a cool colour, can come with either dove grey or black seats and has an option to come with a complete ZF manual conversion...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/480653246389701/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks&tracking={"qid"%3A"6955732337357878778"%2C"mf_story_key"%3A"527585097353045659"%2C"commerce_rank_obj"%3A"{\"target_id\"%3A527585097353045659%2C\"target_type\"%3A6%2C\"primary_position\"%3A0%2C\"ranking_signature\"%3A8470670935102324736%2C\"commerce_channel\"%3A501%2C\"value\"%3A0%2C\"upsell_type\"%3A21%2C\"grouping_info\"%3Anull}"}

[Ghost Chip 188]

7 minutes ago, Sammo said:

@Ghost Chip

Seen this one? Looks like a bit of a project but a cool colour, can come with either dove grey or black seats and has an option to come with a complete ZF manual conversion...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/480653246389701/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks&tracking={"qid"%3A"6955732337357878778"%2C"mf_story_key"%3A"527585097353045659"%2C"commerce_rank_obj"%3A"{\"target_id\"%3A527585097353045659%2C\"target_type\"%3A6%2C\"primary_position\"%3A0%2C\"ranking_signature\"%3A8470670935102324736%2C\"commerce_channel\"%3A501%2C\"value\"%3A0%2C\"upsell_type\"%3A21%2C\"grouping_info\"%3Anull}"}

Yeah, was just about to get in touch with the owner. Seems like a proper project!

[Ghost Chip 188]

@gjm @Olaf @Sammo @Eagle

Thought this thread would be more appropriate for my question. Thoughts on this example? Seems fairly tidy. Wonder if parts are as plentiful as e30s. 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-3064660165.htm

[gjm 3258]

16 minutes ago, Ghost Chip said:

@gjm @Olaf @Sammo @Eagle

Thought this thread would be more appropriate for my question. Thoughts on this example? Seems fairly tidy. Wonder if parts are as plentiful as e30s. 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-3064660165.htm

It's been for sale for quite a while. Good engine, good gearbox, should be lots of fun.
$16k...? Hmm. Difficult to justify, but standard 190Es are appreciating.

If you are keen on a 190E, I have two of them here which will be looking for new homes...

 

[Ghost Chip 188]

2 minutes ago, gjm said:

It's been for sale for quite a while. Good engine, good gearbox, should be lots of fun.
$16k...? Hmm. Difficult to justify, but standard 190Es are appreciating.

If you are keen on a 190E, I have two of them here which will be looking for new homes...

 

Expanding my horizon, but know nothing about Mercs except that they’re expensive to live with 😂. The one I linked does seem like it’s fairly expensive. I’d probably take it if it was closer to 10k and if parts are easy to get (are they?) as it seems fairly tidy. If you can convince me enough I might take you up on your offer 😏

[Olaf 3317]

29 minutes ago, Ghost Chip said:

@gjm @Olaf @Sammo @Eagle

Thought this thread would be more appropriate for my question. Thoughts on this example? Seems fairly tidy. Wonder if parts are as plentiful as e30s. 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-3064660165.htm

I think one of the most important aspects to owning an old car, is:  You have to like it.  It's going to cost you time, sweat, money.  It's more likely that it'll cost you more than you get back for it.  The main return is enjoynent and memories,  So, if you don't really like it to start with, you've started way in the negatives and may never break even given the true cost of owning an old car.

[Ghost Chip 188]

17 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I think one of the most important aspects to owning an old car, is:  You have to like it.  It's going to cost you time, sweat, money.  It's more likely that it'll cost you more than you get back for it.  The main return is enjoynent and memories,  So, if you don't really like it to start with, you've started way in the negatives and may never break even given the true cost of owning an old car.

Fair. That’s very wise

[gjm 3258]

27 minutes ago, Ghost Chip said:

Expanding my horizon, but know nothing about Mercs except that they’re expensive to live with 😂. The one I linked does seem like it’s fairly expensive. I’d probably take it if it was closer to 10k and if parts are easy to get (are they?) as it seems fairly tidy. If you can convince me enough I might take you up on your offer 😏

Expensive to live with? No more than anything else. 🙂  The biggest expense for my 500SE is fuel. I've replaced brake discs and pads, and serviced regularly, but no other significant costs. There will be... I plan to renovate it which will mean many $$$ on paint. Again, that's true of any car.

The E30 and 190E are different. The 190E is better on road, rides more comfortably, and feels like a bigger, better-built car.

The E30 feels lighter and smaller, but more susceptible to imperfect surfaces, is less comfortable and feels smaller.

'Feels' - the actual numbers really aren't so different. 

[Ghost Chip 188]

@Olaf that’s roughly the ballpark I’m thinking of - I’ve saved up almost all of that already. Couldn’t follow why you said that that’s why you went m42? And also why is M5x the sensible move?

@Southerner Is the hassle of having a different engine bay worth the cheaper price when it comes to putting in a b25? M52 is always going to be different but at least with the b25, if I get a m20 base it’d be easier?

Thanks for the input by the way, sorry I relocated this to another thread as I don’t want to take the other thread over with project questions.

[Sammo 2544]

M5X = 

 

[Ghost Chip 188]

18 minutes ago, Sammo said:

M5X = 

 

May as well go n52

[Olaf 3317]

No, that's entirely new territory.  Many are watching the project threads for those going N52 now, to focus on the well-engineered  N52 conversion.  If you want N52 e30 conversion TODAY be prepared to write a blank cheque to a fabrication shop to do your conversion and get it certed for NZ.  It could be quite some time.  By all means go N52 today if you want to be a pioneer and understand what that means in terms of of $$$ or your own time with the requisite skills and access to machinery.

[Olaf 3317]

2 hours ago, Ghost Chip said:

@Olaf that’s roughly the ballpark I’m thinking of - I’ve saved up almost all of that already. Couldn’t follow why you said that that’s why you went m42? And also why is M5x the sensible move?

I went M42 for four main reasons.  Firstly I'd already spent on updates dedicated to 4cyl, it would be a waste of time and money to backtrack and spend the same money twice.  Secondly if I want a performance car, I already have that in other vehicles.  Thirdly I really enjoy the balance of a four cylinder e30; they're frankly better balanced than a six.  YMMV.   Fourthly if I put an M5x into my car, it wouldn't be a 318iS replica.   Ultimately I've not owned a four cylinder car since 2008, and last serious four cylinder car I owned was 1996; I'm keeping this one four-pot for the driving experience.

Why is the M5x the sensible move?  It's a more modern engine, superior to the M20 (doesn't have the maintenance weakspots of the M20), has more power, less weight, multi-valve top-end, and VANOS for the bottom end (later models).  It's a far superior motor.  If you're going to the expense and effort of re-powering a thirty year old e30, and the expense and hassle of certing it, you might as well do an M5x - plenty of power and a better drive.  Unless you're building (say) a 1990 spec 325i (replica), and you specifically want the character of the M20.

I acknowledge that for most people an M5x makes more sense than an M42 or M44 - the M42 is pretty pricey for some of the engine parts.  And then there's the M30 😀.  

I expect somebody will be along shortly extoling the virtues of M60/M62 conversions; I'm not worthy! 😁  I'd love to experience one.  I'm picking nobody says they're easy, or easier than an M5x or M4x conversion?

Hope that helps.  

Here's a thought.  Have you bought the specialist books about the e30?  Take a look on Amazon, buy up, read up.

[E28E30 335]

4 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I went M42 for four main reasons.  Firstly I'd already spent on updates dedicated to 4cyl, it would be a waste of time and money to backtrack and spend the same money twice.  Secondly if I want a performance car, I already have that in other vehicles.  Thirdly I really enjoy the balance of a four cylinder e30; they're frankly better balanced than a six.  YMMV.   Fourthly if I put an M5x into my car, it wouldn't be a 318iS replica.   Ultimately I've not owned a four cylinder car since 2008, and last serious four cylinder car I owned was 1996; I'm keeping this one four-pot for the driving experience.

Why is the M5x the sensible move?  It's a more modern engine, superior to the M20 (doesn't have the maintenance weakspots of the M20), has more power, less weight, multi-valve top-end, and VANOS for the bottom end (later models).  It's a far superior motor.  If you're going to the expense and effort of re-powering a thirty year old e30, and the expense and hassle of certing it, you might as well do an M5x - plenty of power and a better drive.  Unless you're building (say) a 1990 spec 325i (replica), and you specifically want the character of the M20.

I acknowledge that for most people an M5x makes more sense than an M42 or M44 - the M42 is pretty pricey for some of the engine parts.  And then there's the M30 😀.  

I expect somebody will be along shortly extoling the virtues of M60/M62 conversions; I'm not worthy! 😁  I'd love to experience one.  I'm picking nobody says they're easy, or easier than an M5x or M4x conversion?

Hope that helps.  

Here's a thought.  Have you bought the specialist books about the e30?  Take a look on Amazon, buy up, read up.

Olaf continues to be the experienced voice of reason   be great to see some photos  of your 318iS tribute/replica on its journey 

[Olaf 3317]

there's a project thread if you look for it.  I'm not sure being the voice of reason is entirely useful, it has a short shelf life.

[Ghost Chip 188]

Thank you so much for such a thorough response.  Obviously, I haven’t looked it up but I thought that surely someone has done it before. I’m unaware of most of the history of the 3 series so this may be a dumb question but is there a reason why you want a 318is replica? 

I agree @E28E30, so thankful that I found this forum. The wealth of knowledge and experience in here is immense. @Olaf What did you mean by it having a short shelf life?

Coincidentally, there’s a m52 swapped e30 that just popped up today. Looks reasonably tidy, apparently it’s been listed before but expired.

[Southerner 146]

18 hours ago, Ghost Chip said:

@Southerner Is the hassle of having a different engine bay worth the cheaper price when it comes to putting in a b25? M52 is always going to be different but at least with the b25, if I get a m20 base it’d be easier?

It really depends on what the end goal is aswell. Things like gearbox also pay part of the question, auto vs manual, then again 4cyl vs 6cyl. Getrag vs ZF

Coupe vs Sedan also plays a part, if you just want it for the E30 style/look an auto sedan nicely lowered has the same look, 

Or even a E30 vs E36, if you want it to go faster and not too worried on the E30 look an E36 would be an easier option and cheaper, was a nice white E36 coupe on trademe last week for $15k ish? An E30 wouldnt be able to be built this cheap to that spec, 

Don't want to beat down on it, but i often find the end goal and working back is how i build projects. Hence me finding the motor i wanted, then buying the car to put it in once one came up

[Olaf 3317]

17 hours ago, Ghost Chip said:

Thank you so much for such a thorough response.  Obviously, I haven’t looked it up but I thought that surely someone has done it before. I’m unaware of most of the history of the 3 series so this may be a dumb question but is there a reason why you want a 318is replica? 

I can't afford the real thing, even if I could find one.  So I'm rolling my own.  

[Olaf 3317]

PS:  http://www.unixnerd.co.uk/e30models.html