TermiPeteNZ

Recommend you add some more pics of the vehicle including interior Levi.

M5 progress update...

• Bearings are well worn... 'caught these in time' was what Jon said!
• Crank shaft is all good despite the doom and gloom warnings

So that's a huge relief!  

Now we're working out the list of everything we need to do and should do.

We're planning to get the increased clearance BE Bearings from Turner Motorsport.

So pleased to have a pro like Jon working on this - and prepared to do it. 

And yes the radiator will get a good clean

More pics here from when the suspension looked OK... https://www.carjam.co.nz/photos:photos?plate=HAF121&o=0&l=16&pid=0

It is a shame to see it like this - we have two great examples here in Welly.

2 hours ago, KwS said:

Thats real strong money for a car that doesnt drive, has an undisclosed terminal engine issue, has no wof/reg, and appears to have no suspension...

+1 on this... ?

Restored the headlights on the X5 yesterday, using a RainX kit...

• Took a fair while - allow 1-2 hours for doing this
• Initial polish phase quickly got rid of the yellow oxidised later
• polish 2 and 3 - certainly improved things but certainly not clear
• Headlight restorer with microfibre cloth - again improved things, but still not clear despite spending a lot of time on this.
• Applying the sealant at the end made a significant difference - much happier with the results after doing this

Before...

After... 

Well worth it I'd say...

Update - ABS Trifecta just popped up today while cruising through the suburbs, then disappeared when I started the vehicle up again later ... will get the codes read soon.

On 2/4/2020 at 12:23 AM, TermiPeteNZ said:

• Washer pump being replaced...
• Washer system cleaned out (yuk)
• Sump plug had a leak ; not fitted properly - needed a new thread cut plus plug to suit
• New rear tyres going on - Hankooks again - 20" 315s ain't cheap of course ' last replaced March 2018
• New brake hoses too
• Brake system - fault state cleared but reported three codes including sensor fault and 'brakes hot' error - TBA

So all of that is done... tensioner was nowhere near as bad as @adro's or @BozzaFC's - but the new one is better and it looks like the rattle on startup is gone - will check again in the morning. Here's the other stuff...

• The brake fluid was *very dark* so that's been changed and perhaps wasn't helping the ABS... we'll see what happens re the ABS. Looking at my records, fluid condition was checked March last year but hasn't been replaced since Sep 2017 - about 20,000KMs ago.
• Rear door cards reattached ;one of them was annoyingly loose since the regulator was replaced a couple? of years ago
• LF window checked glass seal lubed (had been creaking when raising the window)
• VTNZ WoF picked up issue with the rear lights ? incorrect bulb holders fitted, burnt contacts on both lamps - so 5 bulb holders plus 4 bulbs installed ? My rear light units were some ex-4.6is units i bought for $150 when I got the vehicle back in 2016 - as one of the originals was cracked. Jon has recommended I pick up some replacement rear light units to replace the replacements! 

There was an E38 728i there that has had a terribly hard life ... can't believe the treatment that such a beautiful vehicle can get. Basically every panel and both wing mirrors smashed   Can't save em all I suppose...

1 hour ago, hunter said:

Check this series out Pete vid 2 and 10 for the restoring of the iconic V10 E46 M3 where they discover bearing isues (vid 2) and what was done and root cause in vid 10

interesting viewing Ben - especially seeing them pull the beast out and crack it open - and the info re the Vanos gears

Some comments of note ...

"Just replaced the rod bearings, crank, oil pump and much more on my S85, only a year after they were done by the previous owner. It seems they re-ground the crank which could have led to the premature failure. Get yourself a new one and raise that redline! "

"Driftworks: They are no where near as bad as the internet makes out. I'd personally do a bearing swap in anything I bought though. I've heard of completely stock unopened S85's doing 200+ thousand miles & some that have run bearings at 30k miles."

"BE Bearings are specifically made to solve this problem with S85 & S65 engines. They have the correct clearance, so you don't need to grind the crank. I run them in 3 of my S65 powered cars."

"I can see your  oil sump only has 1 drain bolt which means it is a early engine.  It is  best to weld in another drain bolt or buy a updated sump. On the early S85 they had an issue with dirty oil not fully draining due to the shape of sump so they decided to use 2 sump drain plugs in 2007+ engines to stop rod bearing wear from dirty oil. It is a simple job and will help the life of your engine. https://www.m5board.com/threads/oil-pan-with-2nd-drain-plug-important.277074/"

Great result Boston

15 hours ago, adro said:

How many km's out of those tyres??

Will be great knowing all that stuff is sorted. Can you roll over another warranty?

A bit under 15,000KMs which is what i expected.

And yes will be good to have the list of stuff sorted. 

No real chance re the MBI - it is a 2001 vehicle after all so it was at the edge age-wise when i got it 4 years ago.

4 hours ago, BozzaFC said:

Notice any difference with this done? Did you have any rattling beforehand?

Yes I have rattle on startup and hope this will resolve it... haven't got vehicle back yet.

3 hours ago, TermiPeteNZ said:

Well - took the X5 in for a service etc - last one before the 4 year Autosure MBI expires in March...

• General service - last one was in May
• sort washers - rear not going and front ones a bit weak
• creaking LF window
• replace timing chain tensioner - especially after seeing how @adro's and @BozzaFC's were
• sort LR door card being loose

Anyway - crawling in on the motorway this morning to Auto38 lo and behold, brake light trifecta (again...)

Update soon...

• Washer pump being replaced...
• Washer system cleaned out (yuk)
• Sump plug had a leak ; not fitted properly - needed a new thread cut plus plug to suit
• New rear tyres going on - Hankooks again - 20" 315s ain't cheap of course ' last replaced March 2018
• New brake hoses too
• Brake system - fault state cleared but reported three codes including sensor fault and 'brakes hot' error - TBA

Well - took the X5 in for a service etc - last one before the 4 year Autosure MBI expires in March...

• General service - last one was in May
• sort washers - rear not going and front ones a bit weak
• creaking LF window
• replace timing chain tensioner - especially after seeing how @adro's and @BozzaFC's were
• sort LR door card being loose

Anyway - crawling in on the motorway this morning to Auto38 lo and behold, brake light trifecta (again...)

Update soon...

Welcome to Bimmersport Tom! E65 looks classy in silver!

Maybe check with Brent at BM World to see if he has a replacement alternator...

Yes Tony does good work.

Both times I've had budget tyres I've had sidewall failures - last time was an Achilles on the rear of the X5. 

From my records looks like the Goodrides went on in August 2017 and have done about 15,000KMs.

Job well done by Tony from Wheel Magician! The wife's Mazda wheels... 

BEFORE

And AFTER

And with our BMW Car Club discount  Nice.

Now to deal with the bulge in the last pic above that Tony spotted. I didn't ask for Goodrides to be put on - Driscolls had been putting Hankooks on it previously but I should have checked. ? Details matter...

https://tiresvote.com/articles/tuv-sud-2019-235-35-r19-uhp-summer-tire-test/

9 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Also be careful with getting 35% tints, most BMWs have a factory tint on the glass so that will push it beyond 35% 

K will discuss this with them when i do it...

10 minutes ago, qube said:

not important but AFAIK the % for tints refers to VLT - visible light transmission which means it lets in 35% light.

so if it is at twice the legal limit it must have 17.5 or more commonly 20% tints  

My bad ? but good to know thanks @qube

34 minutes ago, NZ_InFerno said:

Is it cheaper to get another M5 that's already had the work done, where the crankshaft is OK? Or one with lower kms and more life left in it before these faults occur. 

That's a heck of a fault list ?

The thought has crossed my mind - and there's some reasonable options like this: https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-2418435201.htm - my preferred colour combination and including a 3yr MBI - for $24K. But the MBI approach of 'fix it when it fails' with cover up to XX per failure doesn't work so well if you need a V10 engine rebuild and you're only covered for $5-$10K.

Replacing one 15yr-old high performance car with another old one of the same type also carries the risk of trading or repeating sets of problems. And what do i do with the current vehicle? 

Jon's had an M5 in with 60KMs and much worse bearing wear - so KMs is only an indicator. The FB group shows that the bearings can be worn at all sorts of ages - or not. 

Without going into the engine you don't know if the crankshaft is actually OK.

In actuality the fault list isn't huge at present...

• small coolant leak - every BMW gets leaks
• stuffed mirror glass - relatively minor
• fuel sender - an annoyance
• worn bearings - expected

Common sense - if you need/expect cars to have fewer problems, don't buy BMWs, don't buy M cars and buy much newer vehicles. This is a bonkers 2005 500HP supercar that cost over $200K when new and is only worth $20K now ... which makes it cheap, but not really. I remember when i was looking at buying an AMG E55 each airbag suspension unit was $1800 to replace, and they're a common failure item. Colleague of mine was faced with a Merc CLK convertible power arm replacement costing $7K.

?

Looks great!

6 minutes ago, NZ BMW said:

Jesus.... ?

Jesus rides a horse and has chosen not to drive a BMW.

Update...

Tints

• Tints for F30 = $480 ; tints for E60 = $460 ; removal of old tints approx $100. May take the F30 in to get sorted soon. Takes 2 hours to do a car.

Mazda (you don't care but I do)

• Having to get all 3 remaining brake calipers rebuilt on the wife's Mazda - LF was done last time, now RR seized and Driscolls advised that RF was not working properly either. So if doing 2, better do three as brakes kind of matter from a safety perspective...

M5

• Enquired about bearing bearing replacement for the M5 to Winger, Mike Page up the coast and BM Workshop in Akld. Both Mike and BM Workshop have actually worked on the car in the past.
  • Winger are looking into it
  • Mike very politely and sympathetically declined, and recommended Guido at BM Workshop in Botany
  • BM Workshop were very helpful indeed but have also scared the $h1t out of me too... it is of course important to be aware of the possible outcomes. To paraphrase:
    • prepare for the worst - and don't drive the car until it has been checked
    • it is entirely possible that there is crankshaft damage (scoring) - they have seen this in a car with no metal in the oil and a lot less KMs 
    • If your crankshaft is too badly damaged then it is a rebuild and the job will be $20K+
    • big-end bearings can be done in-place ; high-pressure Vanos feed hose should always be done too and job cost is around $6K
    • once you have metal contaminants in the engine there is risk of premature wear on the bearings - BM Workshop aren't keen on doing bearing replacements when this is the case. Funnily enough this is when most people will want their bearings done.
    • They are prepared to lend the tools to a Wellington specialist such as Mike - which is very good of them.
    • Don't expect anybody to warranty a job like this 
• I've been reading up and using the super helpful BMW M5 Owners Club on Facebook - the two experts are Jim Colley from the USA - and Steve Lewis (FB: Mr Vanos, https://www.mrvanos.com/) from the UK. These guys are awesome.
  • Jim Colley has a workshop that repairs crankshafts and he uses aftermarket bearings
    • "Top secret weld repair and regrind. I usually then take off an extra 1/2 thousandth to add oil clearance and then avoid OEM bearings at all cost. For cranks that have all journals ground down, I use VAC coated bearings at OEM size. For non-reclearanced cranks I use BE Bearings. All cranks are then hardened after machine work and rebalanced for OEM rods/pistons/ring sets... I'm just not a fan of the harder surface layer on the OEM bearings now. I like as much delta as possible between crank and bearing hardness."
    • "I have the cranks ground (removing bearing shell backing material, weld built up, then ground back original size and polished, finally hardened. This allows using OEM size bearings."
    • "Because when I take an engine I built with larger clearance bearings apart after 5134 miles, 10k miles, or 27k miles, it looks better than the one BMW did from the factory? No one has yet to open an engine with bearing that provide the same oil clearance engine builders have been using for years and seen the same premature wear patterns that the S65 and S85 exhibit. Sometimes, even BMW thinks they are smarter than they are and make mistakes. For the engines following the S65 and S85, they oddly went back to the same clearance thumbrule they've always followed before."
    • "As a former nuclear engineer turned engine builder, the only factors that extra clearance would play a role in are .00025 inches further stroke of the rod which is will within the piston crown to head clearance of .005". Since the oil pump maintains a constant output pressure, the increased flow from clearance would have a negligible effect on flow to other components aside from increasing main bearing oil flow which is also a good thing. There was a Powerpoint presentation that leaked out a few years ago detailing how BMW used some predictive mathematical modeling on the S85 crank design to reduce the amount of real world testing needed. IMO, they relied too much on what the model data yielded and less on conventional testing with historical data to back it up."
    • "The only bearings I would consider using are BE and VAC. I prefer BE because their QA far exceeds VAC (VAC bearings are kind of like a box of chocolates), but will use VAC if I measure every bearing individually."
    • "You can't change the other bearings (mains) without removing the engine. Might as well rebuild it at that point. As for other things during a rod bearing change, do the vanos line. If old style (pre 12/05 build), change the vanos drive gears on the pump and crank. Piston skirt oil squirters were redesigned around 08, huge improvement and better piston cooling. I've seen a couple of motors pop ring lands on a piston due to overheating on the top ring."
  • Steve Lewis uses new BMW crankshafts (~£3K) and BMW bearings
    • "Not had any issues with BMW bearings and a 5w40 Motul race oil. Bearings come back out looking like new. Presumably your resizing the mains to suit the extra oil flow needed to feed the rods?"
    • "Once a bearing has spun the rod end is scrap. You need to change the con rod which is engine strip down. The only way to do it properly. Out of all the v10’s and V8 M3’s I’ve built with spun bearings not one crank has been reusable."
    • "The cranks are really soft which once the bearing touches takes a fair amount of material off. I’ve measured over 1.6mm material missing on some engines. S54 cranks when bearings spin might take 0.25mm at worst"
  • Views after a crankshaft/bearing replacement "Unless it’s had piston rings fitted it doesn’t need running in. Oil change after 50 miles wouldn’t hurt to make sure the last of the metal is out the engine from the failure"

So I've asked Jon at Auto38 to inspect the crankshaft and we will make decisions from there... so the M5 is off the road until further notice. Fingers crossed I just need to do bearings - and will plan on doing the BE Bearings like @aja540i used ; and will likely do the other items recommended by Jim Colley. 

Another aspect of E60 M5 preventative maintenance is the clutch release bearing... advice from Mr Vanos (Steve Lewis):

• "Well, this was a surprise for us and certainly the owner. The known problem of the clutch release bearing on this car being made from aluminium has bitten this car, hard. The bearing gauled up on the gearbox input shaft, damaging the clutch and flywheel. This didn't seem too big of an issue until we discovered the crankshaft moved in the block backwards and forwards 11mm. Engine out stripdown reveals the damage as shown. Basically the SMG has the power to actuate the clutch no matter what and as such it has pushed and pulled the crank against the thrust bearing, destroying it and splitting the block in half. I have seen this before but the clutch had been changed by a other garage so I didn't get to see the cause of the damage. Top and bottom of this is, get your release bearing changed ASAP to the newer teflon bearing that won't stick the shaft. We can do this for £350 all in. The engine is this car is destroyed, along with Vanos solenoids, oil cooler, oil filter housing and anywhere else the huge amount of metal paste has got to."

Once I've dealt with the bearings issue (and depending on what happens ) this might be next on the list...

Took the M5 in to Auto38 today ... now on ~146KMs

• I've been getting a warning related to tyre pressure loss pretty much every time i take the car out - check pressures, they seem OK and reset pressures via iDrive - and off we go.
  • Jon identified a valve leak on the right rear and has sorted this.
• It failed the WoF due to 2 things... both of which are annoying and unexpected expenses but I can't really argue either point
  • the passenger wing mirror is defective... chromatic mirror (option S430A, LCD) has failed and the LCD is draining. Doesn't appear to be any way of fixing these... and options are 
    • buy new M5 heated chromatic mirror glass - Winger - ~$1800!, Schmiedmann ~$900ish 
    • buy new M5 heated non-chromatic mirror glass via Winger for $500, Schmiedmann ~$350ish
    • so I'm going for the $500 Winger option, taking advantage of the BMW Car Club parts discount.  The chromatic/auto-dip isn't really that important IMHO.
  • despite passing many warrants previously, the windows were identified as being tinted at twice the legal level (70%!). I thought they were factory tinted but this is not the case. So this means getting the existing tints removed (carefully!) and applying new ones at 35%. 
    •   I've contacted Window Magic here in Wellington who come highly recommended... we'll see what this costs. 
    • Hopefully it isn't too bad as I'd like to get tints on the F30 too...
• Jon is sourcing a part to remedy the small coolant leak - glad there weren't any issues when I drove it in this morning
• We're pricing a replacement left fuel sender as i would like to get the annoying fuel gauge issue sorted. When I drive off it shows half a tank, and then  the fuel increases to reflect the actual fuel level. The right sender has already been done back in 2018.
• Jon has done an oil change and I'd asked him to check for metal particles - and yes there is some visible. At this point I need to decided if I bother with an oil analysis, or put the money I'd spend on this towards just getting the rod bearings done as a preventative measure, just as @aja540i did with his E61 M5 Touring (such an awesome vehicle!)
  • Turner Motorsport and ECSTuning recommend bearing replacement at 60-80,000 miles
  • On the Facebook M5 owners' group - the consensus seems to be 'get it done' 
  • Now my issue is finding who can or will do it for me in Welly! Any advice here? Seeing if Jon is willing to tackle it - and will ask Mike Page European and Winger too.

Feels like an expensive time for me, but for me the M5 is a special car and I can't see what I'd replace it with.

?

On 12/9/2019 at 3:10 AM, balancerider said:

Be interested in a review of this when you have time Pete. How does it go on the commute?

Hey @balancerider

Well - here are my observations...

• great daily driver - although the start/stop engine behaviour is quite unsettling at first, and the not putting the key in the ignition is also a new thing for me  
• average fuel consumption on mostly urban driving is ~11.2l/100KM - so lower than all the others, as you'd hope for a much more modern vehicle!
• It is nice having all the modern tech - BT audio and phone are the most useful - but not sure if anything else really matters
• Black paint is a pain ?  
• the modern turbo six sounds beautiful and the torque is epic - very different to all the other NA vehicles. On the digital sport gauges it is reporting 240KW against a claimed 225KW - but who knows if this is correct...
• steering is nice and light but firms up in sport mode
• flies very well along country roads and handles great despite not being a Motorsport model - was great on the recent Napier/Hastings trip 
• the blindspot detection doesn't seem to work at all - will get that checked when it goes in for a service at Winger

After spending a lot of time driving this vehicle, it's safe to say that something like this (especially a touring) is quite conceivably all the BMW you ever need - super nice to be in, goes like the clappers with buckets of instant power - and handles well, while being reasonable on fuel. That said, I enjoy all the different driving experiences with the vehicles we have, and the V10 M5 still makes me smile the most. 

Driving the 335i has put a F80 M3 somewhere in my future plans... turbo 6 3-series = a damned good thing!

1 hour ago, Herbmiester said:

In the end I bought Aaron's (sister's) Montreal Blue e36 328i. Really well looked after car and lovely to drive, a credit to the previous owners. 

Congrats John - very nice!