BMW M approved Castrol Edge tws 10w 60 vs ...

[M3_Power 636]

It’s in both of my s54 powered cars at the moment and as stated above I am in two minds about it as it does appear to behave slightly differently compared to Castrol of old.

Personally I think it’s actually quite a good product on paper especially on higher km engines. Is it as good or better than the Castrol Edge TWS/Professional/Supercar stuff that BMW used to recommend. I would most certainly say so, but without empiracal evidence to back it up so purely speculation and personal opinion.

From what I have read and seen also there are now many good alternatives if you do not like the dealership oil. The top pickings appears to be (in no particular order).

LiquiMolly

Castrol Edge Professional TWS/Supercar

Motul 8100

 

 

[aja540i 1906]

My M5 told me that it would like a service over the weekend so I checked the mileage and it has done 20700 since the last one, done by BMW with the proper castrol stuff, I have taken a sample and sent it away for analysis mainly to see how much big end bearing is in it, but I am also keen to see how good/bad the oil is at that age, bearing in mind that it has had 4 litres of new oil added in that time. I will post results when I get them.....

[aja540i 1906]

results of oil analysis back today, lead level is high, copper is quite low, so bearings have started to wear but are not terminal. Sodium level is also elevated which can be caused by coolant contaminating the oil (or about 4 other things) but water was 0%. Recommendation is to drain and replace the oil (due now anyway) and retest ASAP to monitor levels. Bearings will be getting replaced. 

[Eagle 1662]

Quality modern engine oil in all but 20,000k changes on an M5, f**k that.

[kiwi535 538]

On 2/17/2018 at 1:14 PM, M3AN said:

Not quite, from the source themselves:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

SN is just the "latest" standard, it's not targeted at a specific type of vehicle. You could use it just fine in your non-turbo Ferrari all other things being equal.

The other thing that strikes me about this thread is that OEM certification will only be for the current range of vehicles. An "M" approved oil produced today won't necessarily be "M" approved for vehicles a decade or more older... so that certification is practically useless, perhaps even misleading, for older vehicles.

If the original recommended oil for a vehicle isn't available I think valid questions of an oil manufacturer are; what's the replacement product? are there any additives or characteristics of the replacement product that will be worse for my engine than the original?

The problem is I doubt we'd ever get a straight or reliable answer to those questions - manufacturers deliberately obfuscate oil product details.

It's a less painful process if we can assume every product evolution is better than the last iteration but I'm not sure we can.

 

i think we can say tha every generation is better than the previous one,but that doesnt mean to say the the latest generation oil will be any good for an old M30 lump(for example)

[Olaf 3317]

Where'd you get the oil analysis done, is it pricey, it it publically accessible or more 'through a mate' kind of thing.  

Also, how was your oil performing at 20k kms?

cheers

 

[aja540i 1906]

Done through gough analytical, less than $50 for the sample kit, includes freight and analysis, report etc.I just walked in off the street and told them what I was after. Took about a week.

Honestly, the oil seems to be holding up, but im not willing to go more than 20k on it. It has had 4 x 1 litre top ups of fresh oil, fairly evenly spaced out since the last service so its not all manky old oil.

[M3AN 4016]

So 1 litre is a "top up" in a 500 hp car then!

Horsepower ain't free, that's for sure. 

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

@M3_Power any word on availability of tws 10w60?

[GorGasm 563]

Just got the m5 serviced at bm workshop and they used TWS.  9.5L @ 30 per.   Eek.

[m325i 709]

Yes, I believe @HELLBM has supply (used in my last service) 

[Driftit 2078]

9 hours ago, GorGasm said:

Just got the m5 serviced at bm workshop and they used TWS.  9.5L @ 30 per.   Eek.

This stuff?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/oem-oil-service-kit/m61060oci1/

or

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/ecs-tuning-oil-service-kit/m56svckt/

 

I just get these kits.  Actually this time I think I went with the build your own and got the liqui moli oil.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/build-your-own-bmw-e6x-m5-6-s85-oil-change-kit-inspection-i/s85svcpdk~dk/?pdk=AQIBAQM

[richard 384]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:13 PM, aja540i said:

My M5 told me that it would like a service over the weekend so I checked the mileage and it has done 20700 since the last one, done by BMW with the proper castrol stuff, I have taken a sample and sent it away for analysis mainly to see how much big end bearing is in it, but I am also keen to see how good/bad the oil is at that age, bearing in mind that it has had 4 litres of new oil added in that time. I will post results when I get them.....

 I see what you did there................

[Gaz 1060]

TWS is still available but only in 5litre packs, they've stopped doing the 1litre 

[GorGasm 563]

3 hours ago, Driftit said:

This stuff?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/oem-oil-service-kit/m61060oci1/

or

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/ecs-tuning-oil-service-kit/m56svckt/

 

I just get these kits.  Actually this time I think I went with the build your own and got the liqui moli oil.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/build-your-own-bmw-e6x-m5-6-s85-oil-change-kit-inspection-i/s85svcpdk~dk/?pdk=AQIBAQM

The latter according to the invoice.  Out of warranty soon so the next change I will use whatever 10w60 I can get my hands on.

[Driftit 2078]

On 7/27/2018 at 10:14 PM, 3pedals said:

Are you suggesting here that pennzoil and Castrol are the same product in a different bottle - if so: on what do you base that assertion - Cstrol is owned by BP and Pennzoil was an independant  U.S brand  now owned by Shell.

You are quoting and questioning a comment made on the 2nd of March 2014..

[GorGasm 563]

He couldn't possibly pass up the opportunity to call someone out ?

Edited July 29, 2018 by GorGasm

[smashingly 0]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to check the two Castrol EDGE 10W-60 Titanium offerings that Repco has and to clarify what people have been saying in this discussion...

Based on what this forum discussion says, my interpretation is that the official BMW-supplied TWS 10W-60 is equivalent to the Castrol EDGE 10W-60 Titanium “Supercar” oil (https://www.repco.co.nz/en/brands/castrol/castrol-edge-10w-60-5l/p/A1304624).  Is that correct?

Then there’s the Castrol EDGE Titanium 10W-60 which on Repco’s website says “Synthetic” (the supercar stuff doens’t say “Synthetic”).  https://www.repco.co.nz/en/brands/castrol/castrol-edge-synthetic-10w-60-5l/p/A1262119.  From the forum discussion I understand that this is a different formulation to the BMW TWS / EDGE Supercar oil, according to a previous poster who contacted a Castrol NZ rep.  Correct?

So my gut says to either:

A: Out of paranoia buy the official BMW stuff from Winger BMW for $150 per 5L... OR

B: Get the EDGE 10W-60 Supercar from Repco (the first link I pasted above), $91-ish per 5L (temporarily on special).

No plans to track the car, it’s a weekend driver, but it’ll get a flogging occasionally.  My goal here is to put the ‘right’ oil into it according to factory specs etc.

Can anyone just confirm my statements above - sorry to be a pain, this car is my new baby and I wanna be good to it

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by smashingly
Clarity

[M3_Power 636]

The Supercar oil is the one to get. The back of the container states “approved for BMW M” motors.

I guess as the official Castrol Rep stated in the past the retail packaging for this oil has finally come to our shores! Good to see!

On another note, various owners in the USA all run the new BMW stuff made by Shell and many track their cars extensively without any issues whatsoever.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by M3_Power

[smashingly 0]

Legend!  Thanks man, really appreciate the quick reply, I’m about to head out to Wingers to pick up the OEM filter kit, so now I know I don’t need to pay over the odds for BMW-branded oil!  Didn’t spot the M-approved bit on Repco, doh.  Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[M3AN 4016]

Those two oils are the same, just different packaging and labels. Second picture is the old package (same contents).

If you look carefully at the labels you'll see that both a fully synthetic, FST, "Supercar", 10W-60SN.

Get the least expensive one!

Edit: actually the old packaging is NLA according to Repco's stock listings so you'll be getting the new packaging anyway unless you find some old stock.

Edited February 1, 2019 by M3AN

[M3_Power 636]

39 minutes ago, M3AN said:

Those two oils are the same, just different packaging and labels. Second picture is the old package (same contents).

If you look carefully at the labels you'll see that both a fully synthetic, FST, "Supercar", 10W-60SN.

Get the least expensive one!

Edit: actually the old packaging is NLA according to Repco's stock listings so you'll be getting the new packaging anyway unless you find some old stock.

Wtf are you talking about???

It has already been determined by Castrol directly that it is two different product.

 

Castrol TWS = Edge Professional = Titanium FST Supercar

 

Castrol edge = Titanium FST SN (also marketed as Supercars overseas but not the same thing)

 

Only the top one is approved for M

Edited February 1, 2019 by M3_Power

[M3AN 4016]

People are real nice and polite around here these days aren't they?

The newer packing is a replacement product for the old one, they're not sold side-by-side as different products. Repco told me it was the same oil, different packaging and that they don't have much (any?) of the stuff in the old packaging left. I just had a look at the new bottle, it doesn't mention a new formula.

Either way, any difference would be negligible and both are suitable.

Boy, people get unnecessarily worked up about oil.

[M3_Power 636]

8 minutes ago, M3AN said:

People are real nice and polite around here these days aren't they?

The newer packing is a replacement product for the old one, they're not sold side-by-side as different products. Repco told me it was the same oil, different packaging and that they don't have much (any?) of the stuff in the old packaging left. I just had a look at the new bottle, it doesn't mention a new formula.

Either way, any difference would be negligible and both are suitable.

Boy, people get unnecessarily worked up about oil.

I am disappointed Dave that you take the words of a Repco employee over that of a Castrol technical engineer. But oh well like you said no need to get worked up over oil!

 

 

[M3_Power 636]

And because I put my money where my mouth is