Income weighted speeding tickets...

[LemonHunter 583]

Wonder how this would go down in NZ.

http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/speeding-millionaire-gets-54000-euro-fine/

[MLee 35]

That's right. I've read about that.

"Of course, everyone in Finland thinks that they are a rally driver"...

Reminds of this Top Gear gem:

Edited March 6, 2015 by MLee

[elmarco 56]

I think its the same in Switzerland too

[Driftit 2078]

Would be better to have tickets inline with Car capability and driver skill.

So someone driving a 1989 Nana spec Corolla at 115 pays 3 x more than someone in a new BMW. The BMW is far more capable at those speeds than the Corolla.

[my_e36 43]

Wondering how it will work for those that hide income behind trusts, etc...

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Why is this a good idea exactly? Is it "more" of a crime for a high earner to be doing 120 than someone without an income doing exactly the same thing? Answer is clearly no.

It's just seen as a good idea by those who are jealous of those that have more than them.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Wondering how it will work for those that hide income behind trusts, etc...

dont think hiding is the right word. sheild maybe.

Would be better to have tickets inline with Car capability and driver skill.

So someone driving a 1989 Nana spec Corolla at 115 pays 3 x more than someone in a new BMW. The BMW is far more capable at those speeds than the Corolla.

haha yea did you see top gear last night? they had a little scetch thing about that.

Why is this a good idea exactly? Is it "more" of a crime for a high earner to be doing 120 than someone without an income doing exactly the same thing? Answer is clearly no.

It's just seen as a good idea by those who are jealous of those that have more than them.

Its a case of equalising the impact, $200 fine for someone with $150 disposble income that week, is a lot more than someone with $1500 or $15000 disposable income.

Hence why i support the lowering of fines and increase of demerit points, not for myself of course, but as a country, its a better policy.

[Michael. 2313]

That is ridiculous.

[kwhelan 241]

Would be better to have tickets inline with Car capability and driver skill.

So someone driving a 1989 Nana spec Corolla at 115 pays 3 x more than someone in a new BMW. The BMW is far more capable at those speeds than the Corolla.

trouble is its not you that does something careless or dumb and kills,its the corner you go round and suddenly find a tractor doing 5km, I hate tickets more than the next guy but good car and good driver only give you so much advantage, on a track or closed road,yep but surrounded by idiots in unroadworthy cars, your luck is going to runout

[Allanw 1071]

trouble is its not you that does something careless or dumb and kills,its the corner you go round and suddenly find a tractor doing 5km

Of course... if you're a good driver, you'd obeying the road rules... or at least the ones that makes sense and apply to the situation:

If you're on a road where you're likely to encounter a tractor, you'd be travelling at a speed where you can stop in half the distance you are able to see , and on the best of roads, in the distance you can see.

[FRT 144]

Great ... a beneficiary driving a $1000 car gets a $5 income adjusted fine for being 5klm hr over the limit

Wealthy business man driving a $400,000 car gets a $5 income adjusted fine for being 5 klm hr over the speed limit because all his assets are in trust, business earning are zeroed out to avoid all tax and the loss attributing company that owns the car will see his $5 fine re-credited back to him.

The rest of us are screwed (as usual) and will pay a $100 fine. QED...

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Its a case of equalising the impact, $200 fine for someone with $150 disposble income that week, is a lot more than someone with $1500 or $15000 disposable income.

Hence why i support the lowering of fines and increase of demerit points, not for myself of course, but as a country, its a better policy.

I would argue that changing the level of fine makes the impact, the dollar of the person with high income has the same worth as that of the person with low income. I guess it comes down to your political viewpoint to a certain extent.

The demerit points is more of a leveller if they add up towards an actual suspension from driving, which unfortunately is also a system that is worked by some people.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Its a case of equalising the impact, $200 fine for someone with $150 disposble income that week, is a lot more than someone with $1500 or $15000 disposable income.

Hence why i support the lowering of fines and increase of demerit points, not for myself of course, but as a country, its a better policy.

I would argue that changing the level of fine makes the impact, the dollar of the person with high income has the same worth as that of the person with low income. I guess it comes down to your political viewpoint to a certain extent.

The demerit points is more of a leveller if they add up towards an actual suspension from driving, which unfortunately is also a system that is worked by some people.

[gjm 3258]

There's a need to differentiate between an income-based application of penalty, and a penalty applied on the basis of ability to pay. They're not the same thing.

[LemonHunter 583]

Speaking as someone who use to work for corrections, those who can't or won't pay, get a pretty sweet deal, one guy I recall had 40k of fines turned into 150 hrs of community service. Pretty sweet hourly rate if you ask me

[jeffbebe 1559]

It's too simplistic. Average wage in Auckland for example, is higher than small town mid North Island towns, but the cost of living is higher so their disposable income is probably much of a muchness. A higher fine would potentially hit them harder.

Most of the people I know that earn a lot more than me, have also borrowed a lot more than me so they don't really have any more actual cash in hand.

I think we just need to be tough on sh*t driving and tough on repeat offending. You only have to watch one of the reality cop shows to see that repeat offenders continue to repeat offend with little or no penalty. Sure, their license gets suspended but no-one checks if they're still driving.

Just read this morning that one of the key-taking douches didn't have a license. Go NZ double standards!

[kwhelan 241]

Demerit points are only scarey to law abiding folks,you cant take something away from someone who doesn't even have it to begin and certainly doesn't give a toss.you know the ones 5 up in a integra with bald tyres and only 3 wheelnuts on each wheel

richer folks do have the better camera detectors and jammers

isn't a radar situated on a sunday night to catch skiers returning home targeting an income bracket anyway.

wonder how many speedcameras operate in manakau as opposed to North Shore

no system is ever going to be fair in this PC country but as per the title of thread ,No bad idea

[kwhelan 241]

Just read this morning that one of the key-taking douches didn't have a license. Go NZ double standards!

Had expired few months earlier, probably honest mistake doesn't make him a crim, as to whether its right or wrong to take keys that's another whole thread, I'd be grateful if it saved one of my sons from having a head-on with a tourist but its a slippery slope becoming vigilantes, it must be pretty scary and frustrating to follow someone like that and be thinking what should I do, is he going to kill someone and will it be my fault too, you have to make a decision then and its easy to comment from out here but right then at the time?

[jeffbebe 1559]

Had expired few months earlier, probably honest mistake doesn't make him a crim

The same could be said for some of the poor decisions people (not just tourists) make on the roads.

[gjm 3258]

The same could be said for some of the poor decisions people (not just tourists) make on the roads.

Lol

For some, getting in the car and driving is a poor decision...

[jeffbebe 1559]

Agreed but I think we - as a nation - are getting a bit too high and mighty at the moment. Everyone seems to think they are perfect and never make mistakes and that the rest of the world are a bunch of incompetent f*cktards. Makes look ignorant and small-minded in my opinion. Sure, we need educate o/s drivers on our rules better, particularly drivers coming from locations with very different driving rules and etiquette to NZ but I also think people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and there is some truly shocking driving by NZers.

Sorry, back to topic now.

The problem with fines is that law abiding people pay them, serial offenders don't. We need to get tougher on that.

Edited March 9, 2015 by jeffbebe

[FRT 144]

Speaking as someone who use to work for corrections, those who can't or won't pay, get a pretty sweet deal, one guy I recall had 40k of fines turned into 150 hrs of community service. Pretty sweet hourly rate if you ask me

That's just ridiculous ain't it....

Wonder if the bank could convert my mortgage into a few hundred hours of community work??

[gjm 3258]

That's just ridiculous ain't it....

Wonder if the bank could convert my mortgage into a few hundred hours of community work??

I wonder if the bank would give me anything? Apparently I can borrow umpty hundreds of thousands, but I can't actually have anything because I don't have several years' worth of income free and clear in my account sitting doing nothing.

<ahem>

No - it doesn't make sense. Those with money to pay use their money to pay others to 'prove' they don't have money to pay.

</bitter'n'twisted>

[Olaf 3317]

another lefty nonsense idea. I've heard so much piffle in the media in the last 8 months about "those who earn more should pay more tax". Guess what?! Those who earn more *do* pay more tax.

This would be another unfair twisted taxation scheme.

[kwhelan 241]

another lefty nonsense idea. I've heard so much piffle in the media in the last 8 months about "those who earn more should pay more tax". Guess what?! Those who earn more *do* pay more tax.

This would be another unfair twisted taxation scheme.

well middle income do yes,rich hide theirs in business losses and just manoeuvring of money between accounts to show as a loss ,people like Bob Jones don't pay tax or pay no more than a simple business owner does, the whole system is completely biased to the rich

money makes money,once you get over a certain level