M3 DCT for track work?

[Zadkiel 41]

Hi guys, I am fighting off the urge to purchase an E92 as a nice daily with a bit of track work thrown in. I would like a manual but I am thinking the DCT equipped version is probably better day to day and could even potentially be easier on track which no chance of change down over-revs and less to focus on etc.

So I am just trying to find out if anyone here tracks their E92 DCT and if it is good or if they wish they had a manual instead?

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

The last E92 that BMW Driver Training used for the hot-laps was a DCT, that seemed to go pretty well and I don't think it had any problems. You do get the lovely blippy down-shifts and paddles to pull and feel like an F1 driver.

[FRT 144]

I was thinking of the same thing, my research says that the DCT are very capable devices, swap out to the "racing" clutch packs and off you go.

Not sure how compression locking would go if you peddled hard in the wet??

[jeffbebe 1559]

It all comes down what you value and who you are trying to fool.

The manual is lighter in the front and better balanced and will 'teach' you how to drive properly.

Ron, your trolling is sensational.

[Driftit 2078]

Teach you how to drive properly? Where do you pull this rubbish from.

It is not hard how to figure out how to push a clutch pedal down.

So daily driving would be 99% and track driving 1%. Make sure the daily part is comfortable. Last thing you want it a shitty old manual driving in Auckland Traffic.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

All hail Julius the winger.

I always thought that Jules was more of a Centre?

Play nicely children or the mod stick will have to come out.

[FRT 144]

I think a manual would be more fun to pedal, I've driven three DCT M3s, very cool. DCT you can sloop around town in auto, and for a race application you can't beat banging through the gears, it is a bit faster (not by much). like you say never miss a gear or crunch one, can cant over rev downchange so that's a plus.

You need to drive both and decide. But the box will take as much of a hiding as the manual from all accounts.

[Driftit 2078]

I think a manual would be more fun to pedal, I've driven three DCT M3s, very cool. DCT you can sloop around town in auto, and for a race application you can't beat banging through the gears, it is a bit faster (not by much). like you say never miss a gear or crunch one, can cant over rev downchange so that's a plus.

You need to drive both and decide. But the box will take as much of a hiding as the manual from all accounts.

It is the same box isn't it?

Like the E46. Can even easily convert them to manual. Not that you would in a car like that.

[FRT 144]

Not sure about bolt up etc.

Totally different gear ratios 6 vs 7 cogs and final diff ratio is miles appart. That's what makes the DCT quick through the range.

[Driftit 2078]

It wouldn't be an issue. It would be less comfortable and unnecessary.

If I lived outside of the city I would go for the manual.

[handgrenade 189]

Personal preference I think. I like a clutch. I drove a dct and it takes some seat time to get used to but I think once you get used to it then I'm sure I could deal.

[polley 916]

What sort of irrational crap is that - how is a manual less comfortable and unnecessary ?

Because getting on and off the clutch so you can creep forwards 3 meters every 30 seconds in stand still traffic gets tiresome and sh*t?

[KwS 2425]

You shouldnt be "learning" the clutch in an M3 anyway IMO. I love dual clutch boxes, think they are the best thing since sliced bread and beat out a manual clutch any day.

Ive been there done that to driving a manual daily in rush hour traffic. Give me a clutchless anything for that trip, any day.

[jeffbebe 1559]

 

I'm afraid team that I need to support Ron here as these are perfectly reasonable assertions within a certain framework/context.

The context was the OP suggesting an M3 with DCT might be a great compromise for road vs track use but as usual Ron took the opportunity to jump on his high horse and slip in a throwaway insult or two. Support that if you wish but I call it trolling.

Being able to drive a manual on road or track doesn't make any of us better drivers than someone who drives an auto, it just makes us better at driving a manual. I don't think I'm a better programmer than the Android developers because I learnt on a ZX81.

[Michael. 2313]

I don't really see how Ron is 'trolling'.. He's just making his valid point clearly with out beating around the bush.

The experience between a DCT and a true manual is pretty significant. Pulling a plastic paddle is considerably different to the process of shifting gear and operating the clutch pedal in a synchronized manner. No doubt a true manual car gives you greater control and connection with the car, especially on a track. Automated manuals are just another way to disconnect from a more involved driving experience, sure they can be quicker and fun, but the difference is anyone can flick a paddle, no skill involved with that, but shifting fast in a true manual is something not everyone can do.

[Driftit 2078]

What sort of irrational crap is that - how is a manual less comfortable and unnecessary ?

How you missed the context of my comment is beyond me. Anyway the others have clearly stated why an Auto is more comfortable in traffic as a daily.

[Michael. 2313]

Most drivers were not reading the road/ track , nor the corners, were not in the correct gear, they didn't know what decent line was and were braking and changing gear mid corner sledging and driving erratically reacting to what was going on.

Yes! This here lies the exact problem.

If anything it makes people worse drivers.

[KwS 2425]

A manual on the race track ( and road) enables / teaches you to choose your gears and plan your corners and then drive them always thinking ahead.

My last track day experience driving a manual on the track surrounded by a bunch of clutchless cars replicated the experience of driving on the road.

Most drivers were not reading the road/ track , nor the corners, were not in the correct gear, they didn't know what decent line was and were braking and changing gear mid corner sledging and driving erratically reacting to what was going on.

Someone who has learnt how to read the road and plan and drive corners will be able to exploit the benefits of a DCT gearbox, others will just be flipping paddles reactively

i disagree with this. a manual isnt going to make you a better race driver. If you dont know lines, corners or which gear to be in, you'd still be sh*t on a track even in a manual.

Dont get me wrong, im all for a decent manual with a clutch, but i dont buy into having one instantly making you superman.

[Neal 544]

Get the DCT. It's quicker on changes and enables betters balance when grabbing another gear on those full out 3rd to 4th sweepers.

You can then get on with working on precession down change and braking points on the track.

If you still like a knob to change with there's one on the left.

Do allow about 6 months to get rid of your manual driving habbits such as lifting off on changes.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Neal

[Driftit 2078]

i disagree with this. a manual isnt going to make you a better race driver. If you dont know lines, corners or which gear to be in, you'd still be sh*t on a track even in a manual.

Dont get me wrong, im all for a decent manual with a clutch, but i dont buy into having one instantly making you superman.

Agree. There is NO difference between selecting a gear in a DCT vehicle and selecting a gear in a manual.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Whilst I can see the point that driving an auto can lead to an over-all lower level of attentiveness and involvement from the driver, I can't say that is the be all and end all. If you want involvement from a drive get an old, 1950s car and hustle that along, poor tyres, poor brakes and lack of power grabs your attention straight away!

Using a sequential on the track means you can concentrate on the things that really matter, such as braking point, turn in (both hands balanced on the wheel for better feel) and throttle control. There is a reason why F1, FIA GTs, V8 Supercars, WRC, etc all run sequential boxes. The increased speed is not just from the milliseconds saved per shift.

M3 V8 DCT would be a great road and track car, only thing better would be an M4 I6 Turbo DCT if I could afford to choose.

[KwS 2425]

A good pedal Meister is exactly that , the car don't maketh the driver.

3pedals does not maketh race car driver.

[vtgts300kw 90]

I'd jump onto a US forum to get an actual answer to your question, and not just brain explosions.

But day to day, the clutch is soft on the M3's, so it wont kill your leg. It's just up to you if you can be bothered or not. Me, personally, on my commute, I'll likely never have a manual again as long as I commute through a city. Keep the manual for the weekend.

[FRT 144]

Perhaps some one can enlighten me. Often wondered how a DCT would be like to hoon around in, like if you were sitting on the side of a road and wanted to show off and do a power slide U turn. Needs a bit of clutch balance to break traction and do a nice sideways power slide up off the road.

Or doing a gym khana on the skid pan at Hampton, slide the car around a cone and hook reverse into a cone garage, then forwards off, so fast gear changes and slipping clutch a bit for presise angels to get set up for the next cone.

Ya know what I mean ? I imagine DCT would be a bit naff for that?

[Matth5 471]

I think I'd lean towards a DCT over a manual if I was in the market for that kind of car. Going for a spirited drive and smashing through gears with the paddles would be great fun.

I enjoy driving manual and would choose it over the cheaper and/or older style autos that can be slow. But the modern DCTs and fast shifting autos are hard to argue against.

Knowing how a manual works makes you a better driver because of the understanding it gives you, but driving a manual doesn't necessarily.

Not having to shift lets you focus on other aspects.

My own car is manual so when I do drive autos it does throw me off how they move forward as soon as you put them in D, especially the little ones that like to lunge forward quite fast, takes a bit of adjustment whenever you switch. When I drove some new model Holden's, I found those autos pretty decent and I'd be happy with that.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Matth5