Mobil fuels - 95RON

[huff3r 347]

11 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Butane is a gas at atmospheric pressure, pretty hard to keep in a liquid fuel that is not under pressure.

Close. Butane is a gas at atmospheric pressure, however it does also dissolve into liquid petrol.

 

Refer to :

Petroleum: An Energy Profile, 1999 - https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=m4NKLOHBvHQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

If you want more details, but I can assure you it has been used to boost octane ratings for a long time.

 

Edit: Also re the effects of adding butane, it increases octane rating, meaning decreases flame propogation, but at the same time increases fuel volatility, which can cause the fuel to vaporise completely before it can burn, reducing energy released.

Edited September 22, 2016 by huff3r

[aja540i 1906]

I belive the gull 98 is about 10 percent ethanol as well.

[Breaker 980]

Get yourself a Farmsource account and card, knock 24 cents a litre off pump price at Mobil and 98 looks a whole lot sweeter

personally I always bang 98 in the 740, seems to run sweet from my uneducated ear

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2959]

3 hours ago, zero said:

What would be interesting would be a lab test of the different manufacturers of 98 fuel.

I vaguely recall one of the car, or possibly consumer, magazines doing a lot of fuel tests a few years back, will see if I can find it with Google.

would be interesting if there were a scientific study into the power and economy for the different fuels in the same car (real world test not lab). Especially for older cars without knock sensors, different ECU timing maps, etc.

I always seem to do the lawns quicker when I put 98 in the mower, but that could be a placebo effect?

[gjm 3258]

15 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

my seat of the pants approach was to measure the distance I travel  with the various fuel types over the same route- I consistently got  an extra 80 km plus from 98 over 95 , from which I deduced it was using less fuel to make the same power ( because I use a consistent driving style and the route was the same ) and the tests ran over several months which  averaged out any  small variations in behaviour or conditions.

When we did run 98 in the 318i it did seem more economical, but not by the sort of margin you've experienced. Perhaps an extra 20-30km between fill-ups.

It didn't feel any better to drive though, unlike current 95RON experience.

[huff3r 347]

10 hours ago, 3pedals said:

The most common octane enhancing additive is MTBE ( the B is for Butyl)  not Butane,   full name is Methyl tertiary-butyl ether.

Butane boils  at -1 degree C  ( that's minus 1) where as MTBE  boils  at about 55 degress C so it will stay in a petrol fuel stock in a fuel tank at atmospheric pressure  - Butane won't it 'vapourises'  

 

Oh I'm sorry, you are right and the writer of the several books and multiple websites about adding gaseous alkylates such as butane to petrol in order to raise octane must be wrong.

 

Yeah no sh*t it's not the most common additive, due to the increase in volatility it causes, but it is the cheapest way to raise octane, hence why companies such as gull use it!

 

Before rubbishing a claim as not possible, do some research yourself for once. I'm sorry Ron, you know a lot, but you are absolutely not always right.

[huff3r 347]

15 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Paul - Read my  original response which was " its pretty hard to keep butane in --- " I didn't say it is 'not possible'   nor did I dispute the written literature.

The reason for this is the volatility of Butane which you also comment on and I provided specifics on;  MTBE  is far less volatile therefore much easier and why it is far more common.

From my understanding Gull add ethanol

Pretty clear cut what you said, especially in your second rebuttal.

Quote

Butane boils  at -1 degree C  ( that's minus 1) where as MTBE  boils  at about 55 degress C so it will stay in a petrol fuel stock in a fuel tank at atmospheric pressure  - Butane won't it 'vapourises'

The word "won't" as far as I understand it is a pretty strong way of saying "it is not possible". Again, I could be wrong, I am no Literary expert.

You could just say "Oh, I didn't realise that was the case, I apologise, I was incorrect in this matter." and be happy to have learnt something today.

 

Quote

"Gaseous elements and compounds will dissolve in liquids dependent on the interaction of their bonds with the liquid solvent."

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_(chemistry)#Gases 

Being as Petrol is a rather strong solvent, it is not only possible, but it's actually not even hard to dissolve butane into petrol. If it was they wouldn't have been doing it for so long!

 

Gull do use ethanol to boost octane in their higher octane mixes, but they are also known for using large amounts of butane just to get their 91 octane up to scratch, hence my reluctance to ever touch the crap. I would much rather buy from ANY other service station.

 

Also, I wasn't aware that Mobil 95 didn't have ethanol in it, thanks for opening up another option to me. Having grown up in Porirua, my local Mobil only had the 98 ethanol blend, and I had always (wrongly) assumed the rest of the country used ethanol blends as well.

[zero 1162]

Please Ron don't kill another thread.

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

So how long does a modern 98 last, before all the goodies volatilise and it "goes off"?

[Olaf 3320]

EDIT:  nothing to see here, move along!!
++++++++++++++++

I stay the hell away from any ethanol fuels for my BMW, think I've written the same in other threads.  Boaties generally know to stay away; with there usually being a high likelihood of water in the form of condensate in the fuel tank, ethanol can be very dangerous and costly where it separates from the fuel, combines with the water (that usually floats happily on the surface) and sinks to the bottom of the tank... then clogging the fuel system.  At best, a Coastguard tow, at worst stuffed injectors and an expensive rebuild (these boat mechanics aren't cheap!).  Consider your alloy fishing boat with a 100 litre sub-floor alloy tank.

http://blog.bavauto.com/287/is-ethanol-safe-to-use-in-bmws/ 

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?925902-Ethanol-Damages-BMW-Engines&p=11962660#post11962660 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2009-05-14/the-great-ethanol-scam 

It is for this reason I stick with BP98 (not Mobil, not Gull), and Caltex 95.  It may have been coincidence wirh my e46 that the Fuel Pump was on its way out at 120k kms (112k of which were in Japan) when I ran two tanks of Mobil 98 through it and it died.  The mechanic flushed the fuel system as requested, did find some moisture in the tank but not the phase separation I feared.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a6244/e15-gasoline-damage-engine/

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/10/14/exclusive-bmw-says-no-to-e15-gas-blend/

There should be stickers on the pump in NZ like these;

Edited September 25, 2016 by Olaf
just move along... nothing to see here #8 )

[huff3r 347]

I agree 100% with Ron on this one, this is why Aviation fuel tanks have drains at the lowest point in each tank and the system overall, which must be checked before flight for water, and all water drained until the fuel-check vial comes up with only fuel and no water bubbles.

 

Also, Olaf, I have seen stickers such as those before, I think at Mobil Porirua, and maybe at some Gull stations but I can't be sure where. It was a sticker like that at Mobil that prompted me to go inside and talk to the attendant, who looked my car up in their approved make/model book and said no-go to the BMW I had at the time as well as my Subaru Legacy.

Edited September 24, 2016 by huff3r

[polley 916]

Ethanol is the shizzle, it just seems no one understands it so it gets poo poo'd when some plonker sticks it in their car that wasn't designed for it. 

[gjm 3258]

37 minutes ago, polley said:

Ethanol is the shizzle, it just seems no one understands it so it gets poo poo'd when some plonker sticks it in their car that wasn't designed for it. 

That's the issue. Not all cars are equipped to run ethanol-included fuels. And (sadly) the masses lack the automotive education to know this, or whether their car is suitable or not. They 'know' higher octane is 'better', are sold on the benefits of clean-running expounded by the fuel manufacturers, and so use it. Then their fuel system eats itself because it's made of the wrong stuff, and they get a big bill (or worse).

Nothing wrong with ethanol. Or E85. Just so long as it is used appropriately.

[M3AN 4016]

OT:

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/84535245/Mobil-claims-its-new-petrol-additives-reduce-emissions-and-improve-fuel-economy

 

[polley 916]

1 hour ago, gjm said:

That's the issue. Not all cars are equipped to run ethanol-included fuels. And (sadly) the masses lack the automotive education to know this, or whether their car is suitable or not. They 'know' higher octane is 'better', are sold on the benefits of clean-running expounded by the fuel manufacturers, and so use it. Then their fuel system eats itself because it's made of the wrong stuff, and they get a big bill (or worse).

Nothing wrong with ethanol. Or E85. Just so long as it is used appropriately.

Ah well if someone dosent know what fuel they are putting in their car and if its compatible or not, then thats their problem. Gull even has stickers next to their force 10 saying not compatible with all vehicles and to check if compatible or not.

[M3AN 4016]

13 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

...spot the obvious fail.

Yes, their maths leaves a little bit to be desired.

[gjm 3258]

2 hours ago, polley said:

Ah well if someone dosent know what fuel they are putting in their car and if its compatible or not, then thats their problem. Gull even has stickers next to their force 10 saying not compatible with all vehicles and to check if compatible or not.

All true.

However, those who put in the least effort are typically those who shout, scream, moan and whinge the most. They're 'too busy' to read instructions.

[Olaf 3320]

thanks for that chaps, I stand fully corrected!

I managed to pass school cert science, that was about the extent of it. #; )  Physics and Chemistry at the next level up were interesting.

[KiwiTT 23]

I have always run my car on 98 and will do the same with my BMW 330i when/if I get it.

The Mobil 98 is directly imported from Singapore by ship, I am led to believe and the BP 98 I think is a octane 'boosted' 95.  I use the Mobil on the corner of Dominion Rd and Mt Albert Rd in Auckland.

As for economy, I got an extra 80km with 98 instead of using 95.  The car was designed to run on 100 octane available in Japan.

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by KiwiTT