M62TU preventive repair costs VANOS and chain guides

[Gabe79 410]

What kind of damage would I be looking at for getting the chain guides and VANOS seals replaced on a M62TU (replacing with Besian Systems seals.)

Prices in the US seem to run ~$1500USD for parts alone.

What's the damage here in NZ? Thanks!

[aja540i 1906]

Mine was 7k for timing chain and guides, rings and bearings, gaskets etc, no vanos work. I took motor out and gave it to the mechanic, diy would be cheaper but you would need timing tools etc.

[Gabe79 410]

6 minutes ago, aja540i said:

Mine was 7k for timing chain and guides, rings and bearings, gaskets etc, no vanos work. I took motor out and gave it to the mechanic, diy would be cheaper but you would need timing tools etc.

Holy cannoli! Thank you for that wake up call. Ok, no e38 for me.

[BM WORLD 1283]

1 hour ago, aja540i said:

Mine was 7k for timing chain and guides, rings and bearings, gaskets etc, no vanos work. I took motor out and gave it to the mechanic, diy would be cheaper but you would need timing tools etc.

interesting , why did you do the rings and bearings ?? head gaskets? ?

[Michael. 2313]

Cheaper to put one of these in!

 

[Gabe79 410]

2 hours ago, BM WORLD said:

interesting , why did you do the rings and bearings ?? head gaskets? ?

I didn't even think of that. 

 

The scenario I am thinking of is an otherwise healthy engine. Replacing only the guides Before they fail and upgrading the seals while there. 

[zero 1162]

4 hours ago, BM WORLD said:

interesting , why did you do the rings and bearings ?? head gaskets? ?

Valve stem seals are much easier to do with the heads off, and compulsory if you are to inspect/regrind the valve seats.

Do it once, do it right.

[zero 1162]

1 hour ago, Gabe79 said:

I didn't even think of that. 

 

The scenario I am thinking of is an otherwise healthy engine. Replacing only the guides Before they fail and upgrading the seals while there. 

Valve stem seals can be done with the engine still in the car by using compressed air though the spark plug hole but its a bit tricky and you cant inspect the valve seats.

[Gabe79 410]

9 minutes ago, zero said:

Valve stem seals can be done with the engine still in the car by using compressed air though the spark plug hole but its a bit tricky and you cant inspect the valve seats.

Thank you for your reply. I see I was conflating two questions into one. 

 

Based on on your comment, the VANOS upgrade would be a much smaller job than the timing chain guides. 

 

My question then then becomes how much would these two jobs cost separately?

 

im trying to map out what a worse case scenario would look like in an e38 if the guides fail and trying to ore-empt that by replacing them before they fail and pricing that into the cost of an e38 up front. 

[Breaker 980]

My M62tu is in getting guides replaced ATM. Quoted 4 to 4.5k including water pump replacement. All being completed by idrive in New Plymouth, BMW indie that's done plenty and has all the right tools which is critical. Expensive one off but it's the major fail point so now hopefully good for the long haul

[Gabe79 410]

1 hour ago, Breaker said:

My M62tu is in getting guides replaced ATM. Quoted 4 to 4.5k including water pump replacement. All being completed by idrive in New Plymouth, BMW indie that's done plenty and has all the right tools which is critical. Expensive one off but it's the major fail point so now hopefully good for the long haul

Thank you for posting this. 

I still wonder what it'd cost in Auckland, but seems a safe bet to set aside $5k for a rainy day when owning a m6x engine. *

Is there sense in doing this before it breaks? Or can one just drive till it drops and do it then?

Edit: I mean beyond the basics and getting the car in good running condition up front. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Gabe79

[BM WORLD 1283]

my mate recently brought a 2001 740i msport , needed the timing chain and guides doing

 

he just got a kit in from the usa approx. $500usd also brought the cam locking tool in

got my other mate a mobile mechanic to do the job took him about a day and half etc

[Breaker 980]

Only reason to do it prior would be peice of mind, my other E38 740 was at 230k and never been done. For me it was always hanging as a potential problem but again, might have lasted another 50k or 100k.

if your skilled or confident enough I'd say give it a go, but it's a step to far for me

[Gabe79 410]

23 hours ago, BM WORLD said:

my mate recently brought a 2001 740i msport , needed the timing chain and guides doing

 

he just got a kit in from the usa approx. $500usd also brought the cam locking tool in

got my other mate a mobile mechanic to do the job took him about a day and half etc

Hmm, I had looked around and had only found one for ~$1500 USD here:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/timing-chain-kit/11311435026kt1/

Which is all OEM parts.

 

Now you mentioned the ~$500 one, is this it?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-timing-chain-kit-540i-740i-740il-x5-oem-11311741746kit-2

Did your mobile mechanic mate charge mate's rates, or would he mind sharing what that cost? This seems like it would run a lot less than that ~$5k I had been thinking of, which would be the one major put-off from a 540i or an e38... If this comes down to < ~3k NZD total that goes into "That's not so bad..." territory.

[Gabe79 410]

3 hours ago, Breaker said:

Only reason to do it prior would be peice of mind, my other E38 740 was at 230k and never been done. For me it was always hanging as a potential problem but again, might have lasted another 50k or 100k.

if your skilled or confident enough I'd say give it a go, but it's a step to far for me

No way I am skilled (or have the space) for this job. I can easily bring stuff from the US though...

I am less keen to drop the money on this if it's something that can be replaced if/when it breaks for me. Seems like it's one of these things where you drive till it pops, then you stop and get it towed/fixed. I'd basically keep the money in the bank until it happens. Then it becomes a risk more in terms of timing than cost really, but any car we get with this in mind will be a 2nd car and not something I'd fuss over being out of action for a week or two or three even.

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

I'm going to put my oar in and remind you that the M54B30 as used in the 530i has no such timing guide failure issues. It's one of the things that helped me decide not to buy one of the V8s.

[Gabe79 410]

10 minutes ago, Kopua Cowboy said:

I'm going to put my oar in and remind you that the M54B30 as used in the 530i has no such timing guide failure issues. It's one of the things that helped me decide not to buy one of the V8s.

I know. I am largely looking for precisely that. I do fancy the 540i and e38 series though and wanted to get my numbers lined up to make informed decisions. 

[BM WORLD 1283]

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-timing-chain-kit-540i-740i-740il-x5-oem-11311741746kit

not sure on larbour charges you would need to discuss that with him

and he is based on the north shore too.

 

[necsis 27]

 @Gabe79Here's my experience.... 

In May/June last year I was on the look out for an E39 Motorsport. After driving a 1998 528i that I had purchased from my father after he purchased a 2000 540i Motorsport for himself... I wanted more!

I was struggling to decide between the 530i and 540i.
540i
Pros: More power/torque, V8 wank factor/fanboy 
Cons: Costly timing guide issues, uses more fuel, higher maintenance costs in general
530i
Pros: Smaller engine/alloy sub frame = less weight over the front end for better handling, nicer steering, better fuel mileage, cheaper to maintain. 
Cons: Less power, a bit sluggish off the mark.

I decided to go for a 530i 
I kept a close eye waiting for the right car to come up. 
Suddenly a 2002 540i in Silver popped up with 199kms (don't expect to find these in low kms unless you want to pay a lot)
After looking at it, driving it and finding a few unmentioned issues... i thought f**k it, i'll just buy a 540i.
Got it home and spent a whole day cleaning it and made a list of things that required attention.

Issues:
-Both front seats had the issue of twisting when adjusting certain ways - i fixed this myself at no cost, google/youtube is your friend. This was an issue for 2001- 2003 E39s
-Spare key had a flat battery - replaced battery and reset both keys following a sequence - google/youtube
-Minor interior issues - all fixed using new parts or parts from wrecking yards
-My 540i had the auto dimming wing mirror lenses, they fail and bleed liquid, very expensive to replace - ended up fitting the normal blue lenses.
-Kidney grilles are loose and don't sit flush to the bonnet -  yet to replace.

I have kept a document of service history..
July 30^th 2016 – 205,654kms
-Valve covers pulled, stripped, painted, new gaskets/bolt grommets fitted.

-Replaced positive jumper terminal casing on valve cover
-Fuel filter replaced
-Air filter replaced
-Oil filter replaced
-Timing chain tensioner replaced
-Spark plugs replaced
-Engine oil/filter changed – Total 9000 10w-40
-Differential fluid changed, new crush washers used.
-New front rotors, front pads and rear pads. Bled system with new fluid.
Labour performed by myself.

August 23^rd 2016 – 207,342kms
-Windshield replaced by NOVUS under insurance.

August 26^th 2016 - 207,521kms
-4 New Tyres 2x 235/45/17 2x 255/45/17
-Wheel alignment.
Labour performed by The Bling Company, Te Rapa, Hamilton.

September 15^th 2016 – 210,744kms
-CEL – Misfire on cylinder 5, Coil pack on Cylinder 5 failed.
-Replaced with new unit, cleared error code. Item purchased from Repco.
Labour performed by myself.

November 27th 2016 – 215,126kms

-CEL and a small ticking noise, I killed the engine straight away. 
CEL = Intake cam over advance. Removing lower oil pan revealed small pieces of timing chain guide had started to break away. – Common issue with M62TUB44 engine. Researched repair procedures, decided to replace other items, gaskets, seals, water pump, thermostat, coolant hoses/pipes, oil separators, all intake seals, tensioners, pulleys, belts, vacuum hose etc whilst everything was apart as well as rebuilt both VANOS units using the Besian procedure. 
Labour performed by myself

January 16th 2017 - 218,XXXkms
CEL- Oxygen sensor bank 2 - cleared the code - hasn't come back.

So...
A few tips for the timing guide procedure if you were to ever head down that road....
-Research, I spent about two weeks doing researching everything single little thing - I was lucky to have another car to drive.
-Spend time confirming part numbers and making lists of the parts you need and tipple checking. www.realoem.com is good for this
-I highly recommend replacing other items whilst you're in that deep.
-You definitely require the special timing tool kit for the M62. I managed to rent a kit.
-I bought the crankshaft holder tool and the Vanos press tool. Other tools, torx and e-torx sockets, seal picks and a left hand torque wrench
-Take your time and label/bag up all items. Have a clean working surface when doing the Vanos rebuild.
-Thourolghy inspect and clean oil pick up as you will find tiny bits of chain guid
-Have a laptop out in the shed for easy access to forums/help
-Be very careful removing plastic parts as they can be brittle - replace if you think it needs replacing
-Take special care installing alternator with new seal as I pinched mine which caused a small coolant leak. $65 from the dealer instead of $14 from Pelican for the same part....
-Buy a cheap scan tool cable that plugs into a laptop - they work well just for pulling codes and clearing them.
-Once you have completed the job successfully. I recommend changing the oil and filter within a few hundred kms just in case any debris/tiny bits of chain guide were still in the engine.

In conclusion:
It's a massive job, I reckon I spent about 50 hours doing this - a lot of pissing around triple checking, cleaning, torquing etc. There's a lot of info on the internet about all this, as well as some good youtube videos. You can do this job quite a bit cheaper if you only want to replace the timing chain associated items. I'm a fussy prick though and will be keeping my 540i for as long as I can. I f**king love it.
She's done 221kms now and still running perfectly. Doing the Vanos rebuild was well worth the time, no more vanos rattle and a noticeable increase in torque down low. Wreckers/Pick a part can be great for replacing those pesky interior items. I have learn't a a lot, spent a lot of money but had some good fun.

I am about to do the exact same procedure on my fathers 540i just for peace of mind. Happy to rent out my vanos press tool and crankshaft holding tool for a small amount. Fee free to PM me if you have any questions. Could also scan and send my invoices of parts/cost if you really wanted.

Edited January 30, 2017 by necsis

[Bjoern 4]

My E39 540i doesn’t have a timing chain guide problem, BUT the lower timing chain case is slightly leaking. It seems to be uncommon but I’m afraid it might need fixing in some time. My estimate is that it would take about 30 hours for the timing chain guide repair (based on repair guides) and about $1.500 in parts. Which adds up to about 30*$90 + $1.500 = $4.200 (@ $90 per hour). But a new water pump, oil separator and VANOS would probably make sense too.

The car's mileage was at 76.000 km when I bought it in August 2015. I have done about 10.000 kilometers since I bought the car and I already spent a lot for several repairs. I think the problem is that most gaskets are just too old and start failing. I’m even thinking if it would make sense to pull the whole engine out and to fix everything at once one day. 

[Eagle 1662]

A leak like that wouldn't bother me tbh, id only fix it if i was doing the above.

Good time to replace the timing chain tensioner though which is often neglected. 

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

46 minutes ago, Eagle said:

A leak like that wouldn't bother me tbh, id only fix it if i was doing the above.

Good time to replace the timing chain tensioner though which is often neglected. 

I have an m62tu timing chain tensioner available.