Is the 335i the 2019 performance bargain?

[Herbmiester 923]

A friend is looking for a 335i  or 135i to replace his 550i and I have been keeping an eye out for him. He wants a later 2010 plus N55 with later I drive and there are certainly plenty to choose from. That said the N54 cars are dirt cheap now. I have seen them as low as 11K and while I know only too well there are issues, HPFP, coil packs, charge pipes and on high mileage cars injectors they offer so much potential. MHD and XHP flashes make sorting power and shifting a piece of cake. This reminds of the 90s when you could buy Supras and Skylines for affordable money tune them and make 400 plus HP. 335is may be even cheaper comparatively.  

 

[KwS 2425]

Yup, a stupid amount of car and power for not much money. What else can you get that is so tuneable, comfortable and powerful for under 15k? Sure, reliability is a bit average if it has the usual Kiwi maintenance, but once things like injectors/coils/charge pipe are done, they usually last a long time.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Been thinking this for a while as the prices have been coming down, all of the twin-turbo ?35i models are so easily tuneable and with the addition of a few cheap bolt-ons can give so much more power so easily.

I've been wondering why it's taken the boy racer / tuner fraternity have taken so long to pick up on these models, maybe they are too hooked on their Japanese models to notice the potential of the Euro cars?

[dirtydoogle 383]

12 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

 

I've been wondering why it's taken the boy racer / tuner fraternity have taken so long to pick up on these models, maybe they are too hooked on their Japanese models to notice the potential of the Euro cars?

I guess it's part of the "culture" of the boy racer community? 

 

I won't be surprised to see a move towards the 335 and such in the near future. 

Plenty of mk5+ golf around that have been treated to a tune to make them slightly less disappointing to drive and a few "hot" ST225 Focus popping up. All of which offer the performance of a clapped out GSR or early WRX from the 90s...

 

[Unhingedlizard 2]

totally agree.  thats the reason I bought one now

 

When an S15 silvia is northwards of 20k and a monaro was 30 or more the 335 i bought was 19.  so much more car for the money

[M3AN 4016]

7 hours ago, Herbmiester said:

...This reminds of the 90s when you could buy Supras and Skylines for affordable money tune them and make 400 plus HP...

 

1 hour ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

...I've been wondering why it's taken the boy racer / tuner fraternity have taken so long to pick up on these models, maybe they are too hooked on their Japanese models to notice the potential of the Euro cars?

It's because those 90's JDM 6 cylinder engines were good for 1000 hp + without significant changes to the long block... pretty sure a N5x isn't quite that strong...

Not saying they're not good, just identifying why I think it's a different proposition. Heck, the JDM 4 cylinders of the day could probably push more than a N5x of recent times.

 

[KwS 2425]

1 hour ago, M3AN said:

 

It's because those 90's JDM 6 cylinder engines were good for 1000 hp + without significant changes to the long block... pretty sure a N5x isn't quite that strong...

Not saying they're not good, just identifying why I think it's a different proposition. Heck, the JDM 4 cylinders of the day could probably push more than a N5x of recent times.

 

This guy has 860WHP, with 36psi boost on an unopened N54, so they arent that sh*t. https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1104103&page=11

Do you always have to be such a sourpuss?

[M3AN 4016]

11 minutes ago, KwS said:

This guy has 860WHP, with 36psi boost on an unopened N54, so they arent that sh*t...

Do you always have to be such a sourpuss?

I thought they were sh*t? No, that's not what I said at all...

1 hour ago, M3AN said:

... pretty sure a N5x isn't quite that strong... not saying they're not good, just identifying why I think it's a different proposition...

?

[KwS 2425]

 

[GorGasm 563]

10 hours ago, M3AN said:

 

It's because those 90's JDM 6 cylinder engines were good for 1000 hp + without significant changes to the long block... pretty sure a N5x isn't quite that strong...

Not saying they're not good, just identifying why I think it's a different proposition. Heck, the JDM 4 cylinders of the day could probably push more than a N5x of recent times.

 

Hah, you make it sound like you can just turn the boost up on a 2JZ and get 1000hp.  In reality 1000HP out of a 2JZ, RB26 or N54 is going to be a big, expensive job.

The 335i has been a performance deal since 2016, or earlier even.  I was looking at low mileage 335i wagons in 2015 for under 30 grand.

[m325i 709]

19 hours ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

I've been wondering why it's taken the boy racer / tuner fraternity have taken so long to pick up on these models, maybe they are too hooked on their Japanese models to notice the potential of the Euro cars?

Because they are all automatic.

[Gaz 1060]

2 hours ago, m325i said:

Because they are all automatic.

135 manuals are where the potential gains are. Few of them popping up for sale under 20k if the manual thing is a stopping block.

Having driven a modded 335 I'm more than happy with the auto trans as you need both hands on the wheel. However most people want to go drifting and manuals tend to be better than full autos

[KwS 2425]

A tuned auto in the 335i is actually pretty good (and the fact you can tune it so easily blows my mind). No match for a manual or DCT (like in later 335i/135i) but shifts fast enough and is pretty responsive, and is great to cruise around. I can certainly see the hate for autos though, but people even wet themselves for auto Supras and the likes, but probably more due to limited availability than anything.

[M3AN 4016]

11 hours ago, GorGasm said:

Hah, you make it sound like you can just turn the boost up on a 2JZ and get 1000hp.  In reality 1000HP out of a 2JZ, RB26 or N54 is going to be a big, expensive job.

Well it wasn't my intention to make it sound trivial when I said "without significant changes to the long block". I'll stand by what I said though because whilst non-trivial changes do need to be made they're not "significant" (e.g. you're not going to need to bore or stroke or change the crank or so-forth).

And the video that @KwS posted above (thanks) is clear in stating that N54's are not reliably obtaining the same HP levels as your worked 2JZ or RB26. And the BMW engines have way more inherent problems. 

There's a lot of misdirected love in this thread that doesn't make sense to me but I'll stand by my initial statement - "pretty sure a N5x isn't quite that strong..." because it's true.

And poo poo to you all. ?

 

[Eagle 1662]

Nothing would ever truly beat those engines given they were overbuilt by Japanese in the golden era of engine manufacturing.  

No intention of owning one but do respect them and do get the appeal of N54\N55. Its too bad many modern BMW engines like these seemed to be plagued with reoccurring issues or issues that shouldn't exist.    

[KwS 2425]

2 hours ago, M3AN said:

There's a lot of misdirected love in this thread that doesn't make sense to me

Drive a well sorted n54/n55. Blows an E36 M3 out of the water for pure performance and refinement.

[Herbmiester 923]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:28 PM, M3AN said:

 

It's because those 90's JDM 6 cylinder engines were good for 1000 hp + without significant changes to the long block... pretty sure a N5x isn't quite that strong...

Not saying they're not good, just identifying why I think it's a different proposition. Heck, the JDM 4 cylinders of the day could probably push more than a N5x of recent times.

 

The Supra Block could go 800plus horsepower reliably but not the RB blocks. 

[Herbmiester 923]

7 hours ago, m325i said:

Because they are all automatic.

Yeah but thats as much because the Jap autos suck big time. There a world of difference between  a ZF 6speed and  4 speed Jatco from the mid nineties. In day to day driving I think the ZF is fine maybe even better than the manual especially with an XHP tune.  

[Herbmiester 923]

Biggest limitation to N54 power production is cast pistons in an open deck aluminium block. The Siamesed cylinders give some support but the 2JZ had both Siamesed cylinders and a thick closed deck with extra thick cylinders at the top. The RB block in contrast had thin-ish cylinder walls, core shift, thinner deck and was not as hard as the 2JZ, it also had a poor oil system and frequently cracked the block when pushed past 5-600 HP.  So I agree the N54 has limitations compared to the 2JZ but apart from the Barra (Which is very big and heavy) the early N54's stack up pretty well compared to a lot of other tuner engines. I didn't mention EJ, SR or 4G engines because well they are 4 Cyl and yes they can make big HP but they require a lot of work to get there especially the EJ . Also all of the above mentioned engines will require new turbos, intakes, pipes and fuel systems so it makes any argument about the reliability of the factory setup for big HP a bit redundant. The stock setup on a 2JZ would allow maybe 450HP pretty similar to an N54 and a bit more possibly than an N55, a stock RB26 DETT can make just over 400HP. Now finding an affordable Supra or GTR well that's just not going to happen and they cant be tuned with a phone App.  Just getting some perspective here. 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Herbmiester

[dirtydoogle 383]

Worth mentioning that you need rod bolts in a JZ to push proper power. Standard piston/rod will manage 500wkw quite well. About the same as an n5x without a rod bolt upgrade 

[m325i 709]

18 hours ago, m325i said:

Because they are all automatic.

To be clear I am not hating on auto - and agree that with a tune they are actually really good. But flat peak, Monster Energy vape squad aren't so keen on them.

 

[Herbmiester 923]

1 hour ago, m325i said:

To be clear I am not hating on auto - and agree that with a tune they are actually really good. But flat peak, Monster Energy vape squad aren't so keen on them.

 

Excellent description of the demographic   

[KwS 2425]

8 hours ago, m325i said:

To be clear I am not hating on auto - and agree that with a tune they are actually really good. But flat peak, Monster Energy vape squad aren't so keen on them.

 

@3pedals dat you bro?

[Gaz 1060]

https://www.trademe.co.nz/1859924942

Here you go, manual, had oil leaks and water pump done and under 15k. It's a deal, it's a steal, it's the sale of the f**king century

[Herbmiester 923]

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/1859924942

Here you go, manual, had oil leaks and water pump done and under 15k. It's a deal, it's a steal, it's the sale of the f**king century

Thats a nice car.