Walnut Blasting - what to pay??

[NZ BMW 368]

3 hours ago, Gaz said:

If a builder gives you an estimate build a house of 3 months, do you tell him no, I reckon it'll take 1 month? 

What is you do for a job? Cause I'll turn up one day and tell you that it should be done 65% faster than your estimate 

No. I say “yeah that’ll take six months after all your smoko breaks!”

[GorGasm 563]

I'd pay $1000.  It sounds like a dick of a job and I would rather spend my time doing my job to pay for it.

I sometimes hate the kiwi DIY attitude.  Paying people to do jobs makes the world go round.

[polley 916]

4 hours ago, Gaz said:

 

What is you do for a job? Cause I'll turn up one day and tell you that it should be done 65% faster than your estimate 

Appears to be an expert at everything and good at telling people they are doing it wrong.

 

So probably in HR or health and safety. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by polley

[M3AN 4016]

@HalfJobHarry, your engagement and enthusiasm is welcome but I think your estimates are optimistic. You're using "best case scenario" numbers and that's not realistic for an operating business, "best case" rarely materialises. If you're doing a one-off, love it and run it thing then sure, a couple of hours might do it. But if you're visiting a pro you need to factor in space, opportunity cost, setup, consumables, labour, pack down and clean, breakage and loss, etc, etc.

I do however think that NZ prices are higher than they should be on the trade/used/parts/recycled market.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

13 hours ago, M3AN said:

@HalfJobHarry, your engagement and enthusiasm is welcome but I think your estimates are optimistic. You're using "best case scenario" numbers and that's not realistic for an operating business, "best case" rarely materializes. If you're doing a one-off, love it and run it thing then sure, a couple of hours might do it. But if you're visiting a pro you need to factor in space, opportunity cost, setup, consumables, labour, pack down and clean, breakage and loss, etc, etc.

I do however think that NZ prices are higher than they should be on the trade/used/parts/recycled market.

Again agreed. All very valid points. All of those costs/operating/risks etc apply to pretty much any job performed by a mechanic at a business. It's the lack of transparency that is my issue. Nobody seems to dispute that taking your time this would be a 5 hour job, $120 an hour + $50 brings it to $650. Leaving $350 to bring it to $1000 for overheads? It was my understanding that those other costs, opportunity etc were already mostly covered by a garages hourly rate. Either that or a lot more $$$ goes into a mechanics pocket these days than I thought. 

I've ordered an appropriate vac and sand blaster and I just need to source the right sized walnuts and fashion some kind of adapter (I'll be waiting months for one to come in from overseas otherwise) and I'm keen to see how much blasting a set of moderately dirty valves takes to do. I may find it a real nightmare and I'll gladly eat a massive dose of humble pie

 

 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

19 hours ago, Gaz said:

If a builder gives you an estimate build a house of 3 months, do you tell him no, I reckon it'll take 1 month? 

What is you do for a job? Cause I'll turn up one day and tell you that it should be done 65% faster than your estimate 

It's about using your head.. If you're builder says 5 years to build a 3 bed...do you go? "Take my money, sounds good you are the expert" or do you go....hmmm, it seems that other comparable houses get built in less than 12 months...I'm no expert but 5 years seems a bit too long to me. 

I'm not claiming expertise, I'm just questioning the "accept any price" at face value position and applying some thought to it. 

Shopping around is allowed. If as a customer I don't like the price/service offered I'm not obligated to simply pay up because that's the first price somebody gives me. 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

15 hours ago, GorGasm said:

I'd pay $1000.  It sounds like a dick of a job and I would rather spend my time doing my job to pay for it.

I sometimes hate the kiwi DIY attitude.  Paying people to do jobs makes the world go round.

It's mostly about learning how to do something for  me. I'm totally happy to pay what I feel is a fair price for work, which I often do. Granted some jobs are not ones I want to tackle...

By that logic I'd be paying $85 for somebody to change my air filter + the cost of the filter. Like anything, it varies on ones appetite for the difficulty of the job at hand right?

[Gaz 1060]

2 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

It's about using your head.. If you're builder says 5 years to build a 3 bed...do you go? "Take my money, sounds good you are the expert" or do you go....hmmm, it seems that other comparable houses get built in less than 12 months...I'm no expert but 5 years seems a bit too long to me. 

I'm not claiming expertise, I'm just questioning the "accept any price" at face value position and applying some thought to it. 

Shopping around is allowed. If as a customer I don't like the price/service offered I'm not obligated to simply pay up because that's the first price somebody gives me. 

You are quite right to shop around which I encouraged a few posts ago but so far 'I reckon' is the only information you are basing it off. 

Each workshop is going to give you a different cost based off their labour rate. 5 hours at $100 a hour and 5 at $200 a hour are going to give you two very different costs, but they both take 5 hours.

One thing people seem to forget is that loyality will leave you to be better off in the long run instead of chasing the bottom dollar

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

Loyalty these days is just a $1 note. Reminds me of a "customer ?" that needed a quote for front and rear brakes on his E90. I gave him a quote for new German ATE rotors, pads and wear sensors including labour and GST. He came back about 3 weeks later and wanted us to reset the service module and wanted me to give him a quote to fix the squeaking Remsa pads on Chinese disc rotors and the old wear sensors..... all this he expected  us to do for free. The difference from my original quote was $80 but he went with the special race brake installation by an aftermarket franchise. I told him I would take it all off and do it properly for the original quote and give him back the sh*t parts that had been installed..... I ended up telling him to leave the premises and had a cup of coffee... Jeeze I'm glad I'm retired now  and don't have to deal with this sh*t any more

Edited May 27, 2020 by B.M.W Ltd

[Gaz 1060]

Happens all the time in the dealership. It's turning into the building industry and a race to the bottom which will lead to workshops closing and going bankrupt because they are running on such fine margins 

[M3AN 4016]

Surely that's offset by the margin on genuine parts though? For the dealership network that is, not the indies.

[Gaz 1060]

Not sure what you @M3AN there sorry Dave? 

[zero 1162]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:33 AM, HalfJobHarry said:

 

I don't see there is a requirement to change the gaskets unless they need it, granted if it's been 55k they probably need it.

 

Always change the gaskets.

[zero 1162]

4 hours ago, B.M.W Ltd said:

Loyalty these days is just a $1 note. Reminds me of a "customer ?" that needed a quote for front and rear brakes on his E90. I gave him a quote for new German ATE rotors, pads and wear sensors including labour and GST. He came back about 3 weeks later and wanted us to reset the service module and wanted me to give him a quote to fix the squeaking Remsa pads on Chinese disc rotors and the old wear sensors..... all this he expected  us to do for free. The difference from my original quote was $80 but he went with the special race brake installation by an aftermarket franchise. I told him I would take it all off and do it properly for the original quote and give him back the sh*t parts that had been installed..... I ended up telling him to leave the premises and had a cup of coffee... Jeeze I'm glad I'm retired now  and don't have to deal with this sh*t any more

I bet it was a 320i too.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

43 minutes ago, zero said:

Always change the gaskets.

At some interval or literally every time you take your intake off? 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

5 hours ago, Gaz said:

You are quite right to shop around which I encouraged a few posts ago but so far 'I reckon' is the only information you are basing it off. 

Each workshop is going to give you a different cost based off their labour rate. 5 hours at $100 a hour and 5 at $200 a hour are going to give you two very different costs, but they both take 5 hours.

One thing people seem to forget is that loyality will leave you to be better off in the long run instead of chasing the bottom dollar

I'm totally ...totally ..totally with you on that one. I'll level with you on this one...the $250 + GST quote I once received to change the oil housing gasket (3 bolts and a $12 part) has rather jaded my view of some operators. I'm all for loyalty and I'd love to establish a good rapport with a reliable and good value for money garage. However when the first conversation goes like that I'm never getting in the door to start that relationship because I'm immediately feeling like I'm going to get 'stung' for every little thing. For example I'd much rather pay and trust somebody to do my oil and filter changes, because I always ache the next day from getting under there and stuff....but the mark ups on the filter, the oil ($5 for the drain plug washer!, yes I have been quoted for the new washer!) leave a bad taste. 

I'm in no way "chasing the bottom dollar" ...and I love the example further down the thread on the Chinese brake rotors. This is what the uninitiated do not understand....all things especially parts are far from equal. There is a class of car owner/customer it seems that their only objective is to keep their vehicle running for the least possible dollar outgoing. I question why people with that mindset drive BMWs at all...there are far far far better options for 'cheap hassle free motoring'

 

 

[M3AN 4016]

2 hours ago, Gaz said:

Not sure what you @M3AN there sorry Dave? 

Somewhere in the NZ supply chain someone is making a killing on genuine parts, the service counter cost is criminal. I assume that the dealers take a reasonable cut of that margin, which would somewhat offset any low margin labour considerations.

It's difficult to look at a BMW dealer and think "low margin" when we can compare the extortionate price of parts locally to the exact same part from the US or Europe. 

[Gaz 1060]

31 minutes ago, HalfJobHarry said:

I'm totally ...totally ..totally with you on that one. I'll level with you on this one...the $250 + GST quote I once received to change the oil housing gasket (3 bolts and a $12 part) has rather jaded my view of some operators. I'm all for loyalty and I'd love to establish a good rapport with a reliable and good value for money garage. However when the first conversation goes like that I'm never getting in the door to start that relationship because I'm immediately feeling like I'm going to get 'stung' for every little thing. For example I'd much rather pay and trust somebody to do my oil and filter changes, because I always ache the next day from getting under there and stuff....but the mark ups on the filter, the oil ($5 for the drain plug washer!, yes I have been quoted for the new washer!) leave a bad taste. 

I'm in no way "chasing the bottom dollar" ...and I love the example further down the thread on the Chinese brake rotors. This is what the uninitiated do not understand....all things especially parts are far from equal. There is a class of car owner/customer it seems that their only objective is to keep their vehicle running for the least possible dollar outgoing. I question why people with that mindset drive BMWs at all...there are far far far better options for 'cheap hassle free motoring'

 

 

Fair enough, although there's 2 oil filter housing gaskets and it's a fiddly wee job trying not to spill coolant everywhere 

8 minutes ago, M3AN said:

Somewhere in the NZ supply chain someone is making a killing on genuine parts, the service counter cost is criminal. I assume that the dealers take a reasonable cut of that margin, which would somewhat offset any low margin labour considerations.

It's difficult to look at a BMW dealer and think "low margin" when we can compare the extortionate price of parts locally to the exact same part from the US or Europe. 

Doesn't cover the cost of fixing other people's laziness or inability to complete basic servicing for free, especially when they never purchased anything from the dealer. It's a weekly occurrence, "had my car serviced elsewhere a d they cant make this light go away, can you do it for free?"

Dealers will survive on warranty and service plan work. It's the middle of the range workshops that will suffer, just like all the building and civil sub contractors that fall off because people want the cheapest price on stuff

[M3AN 4016]

Yep, I'm on the same page with you there ^ and yes, if you've not got the backing of a dealer and aren't installing crap parts you're being squeezed. It's the "proper" indies that will suffer.

 

[Eagle 1662]

7 hours ago, B.M.W Ltd said:

Loyalty these days is just a $1 note. Reminds me of a "customer ?" that needed a quote for front and rear brakes on his E90. I gave him a quote for new German ATE rotors, pads and wear sensors including labour and GST. He came back about 3 weeks later and wanted us to reset the service module and wanted me to give him a quote to fix the squeaking Remsa pads on Chinese disc rotors and the old wear sensors..... all this he expected  us to do for free. The difference from my original quote was $80 but he went with the special race brake installation by an aftermarket franchise. I told him I would take it all off and do it properly for the original quote and give him back the sh*t parts that had been installed..... I ended up telling him to leave the premises and had a cup of coffee... Jeeze I'm glad I'm retired now  and don't have to deal with this sh*t any more

Sounds a bit like a situation we had - Woman comes in wanting a headlight bulb replaced which we do for $20, but turns out she can't pay but will come back next week to pay it instead. 3 weeks later a car drives onto the premise at lunch time and parks in the middle of the driveway for a bit but everyone ignores it due to the break, so it pulls into the workshop and beeps the horn instead. Boss comes down and recognizes the woman, tells her this ain't a McDonalds drive thru service and we are on our break. She ends up wanting a quote for some other work, but when brings up the $20 she was suppose to pay 3 weeks ago she has all the excuses in the world. Boss tells her to keep the $20 and never come back. Daughter leaves a bad Google review saying how rudely she was treated. 

Just ringing around finding parts and getting the part prices etc can actually be quite time consuming (especially multiple parts). In some other professions that would be the equivalent of a short consultation and they would probably charge you. 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

11 hours ago, zero said:

I bet it was a 320i too.

Yes it was. Modified too with heaps of special accessories......Battery cover delete, unsafe battery jumper leads, a bottle of peak coolant and 2 bottles of SAE40 engine oil. I also forgot to mention that the repairer had also mislaid the lock nut

[Herbmiester 923]

14 hours ago, Eagle said:

Just ringing around finding parts and getting the part prices etc can actually be quite time consuming (especially multiple parts). In some other professions that would be the equivalent of a short consultation and they would probably charge you. 

Yep that's a fair comment.

[zero 1162]

19 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

At some interval or literally every time you take your intake off? 

Every time you take the inlet off.

In the scheme of things spending a few extra dollars on a new inlet gasket is peanuts.

And much better than having to pull the inlet again if you have a leak.

[zero 1162]

@HalfJobHarry makes a good point though, and I can see both sides.

Learning to do the work on your own car is rewarding and a money saver, as long as you do it properly and with proper parts.

Then there are some jobs best left to the professionals.

And finally, there are always idiots out there like Glenn and others have given examples of.

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

38 minutes ago, zero said:

 

And finally, there are always idiots out there THAT Glenn and others have given examples of.

Fixed ?