Govt Breathes New Life Into "Clean Car" Legislation

[Olaf 3317]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:14 PM, GorGasm said:

MG ZS EV is where it's at.  $40k for a brand new small EV SUV.  It's seriously tempting, a little more range would be nice so I could get to and from Auckland on 1 charge.

 

Soon you can expect media campaigns funded by the government that driving so far as to exceed the range of a responsible EV like the MG ZS is irresponsible wanton consumerism, and working from home is best for the country.  You'll end up in the stocks for suggesting this might be a reasonable requirement; and when they discover you've a Maserati under that drop cloth in the garage, the guillotine will be oiled.

[dirtydoogle 383]

15 hours ago, nick496 said:

I've recently purchased a second hand leaf, mostly because the cost of it was so low (4 figures), and it meets 90% of my driving requirements. (E30 suits the longer distances funnily enough)
But they do seem to have gone up in price with that clean car discount, which is achieving it's true goal of driving more initial interest in purchasing a new EV.
Which is ok as a short term strategy, but debatable long term, as I feel that simply continuing to hike fuel prices would be the easy way to force people into more efficient vehicles, or public transport.

In terms of running costs, there's no question that EVs are currently super cheap to run.
However it really depends on what the government decide to do once the RUC exemption expires in 2024, and if they'll charge them at the standard RUC rate, or come up with another scheme.

After that I'd guess that having a Hybrid would probably still be the vehicle of choice as a single vehicle.
But I imagine there will continue to be a large number of enthusiast who will hold onto their vehicle(s) of choice

I put together a wee calculator based off some claimed economy figures from fuelly to play around with to justify the purchase of a third car.

I did up a similar spreadsheet myself, out of curiosity, I'm not in the market for a Leaf, but it's interesting to look at the real costs of cars I'll probably never buy
One thing to factor in, charging losses of 15-20%, most calculations I have seen miss this.

And it seems that unless I can get 10 years out of a Leaf, I'm better off driving my clunky 406 HDi
From an emissions standpoint it's quite hard to work out, lines losses to my house are pretty hard to calc (I work for a transmission equipment outfit, sort of) but from what I can figure out in terms of just energy consumed, a Leaf would be around 40% cleaner than my Pug, in a commuting only situation

 

[nick496 268]

The Leaf's kwH/100KMs is that I've calculated mine out to be based off a few charges, so the results of that are fairly accurate for my use.
The Outlander dealer site says Dealer site say 7.4l/100km, electricity at 16.9kwh/100km, so I've just inflated those numbers slightly.

I purchased it looking to save 2k a year in fuel, and more in maintenance for the next 2 years. 
Countering against it devaluing to next to nothing over the next 5 years assuming the battery degrades to below 50kms of range.
So it should save me a little bit of money over all, but probably won't have been the case if it was 10k+

Total emission calculations really are a mixed bag, as it requires drawing a lot of data from a bunch of places who aren't particularly forthcoming about providing such data.

I'd say that for everyone, you might as well drive your current vehicle until you want to replace it, and then see what has come to market.

[dirtydoogle 383]

You're not wrong about finding the data! 

I used 17.2kw/h used per 100km +15% for charging. Those were the most realistic seeming average I found for a current leaf. Ad another 15% on top for an early model. 

And I used 150gm co2e/kWh as the emissions base for supply, national average is a wee bit lower and a little added in for transmission loss. 

 

So  yeah. Funnily enough EVs are less emmitty 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

So it has been reported in various news channels that as part of the latest world summit thingy, COP26 (?), or whatever they called it, that NZ has signed up to a complete ban of all sales of new Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles by 2040. I haven't seen an official announcement of this from the Government PR people, but it has apparently come from a "Government Official" so could have some weight to it.

I wonder how much longer after that there would be a complete ban on the use of ICE vehicles??

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

23 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

I wonder how much longer after that there would be a complete ban on the use of ICE vehicles??

Maybe not an outright ban, i reckon a cost prohibitive conditioning exercise...

[Eagle 1662]

Only issue if you are struggling financially. Wealthy people will just pay to play.

[martyyyn 102]

So the prospect is for a ban of new ICE sales in 20 years and the likelyhood of being expensive as hell to drive sometime (probably years) after that (if they don't get that way sooner given the current price increases). Meh, no drama for me I'll be 75+ by then and I can't imagine the rod bearings on the M5!

TBH I lost interest in new ICE cars years ago. The line between the E60 and F10 did it for me. My E60 M5 is significantly bigger than my E34 but our F10 is huge. It's big, it's heavy, it's bloated with padding everywhere and huge seats, it's a 7er not a 5er. Sure the F10 M5 is fast, but you can't properly enjoy it anywhere other than the track.

But what price will EV's be in 20 years ? What kind of range will they have and how fast will they charge in 10 years let alone 20 ? Given their performance would you even want an ICE ?

My 21yo daughter doesn't drive, has no interest in it or any need to as she lives in a city. If/when she does ever buy a car it will be an EV.

For my 18yo son a car is just transport. He shows an interest because his friends love my M5 and 535is, but that's all. He will have no problem buying an EV as his first car because he doesn't really care.

My 14yo daughter will likely never drive an ICE. We'll have an EV by the time she's learning to drive and a 100km range is all she needs for school and sport so a cheap Leaf is perfect for her.

I understand not everyone can afford an EV (new or used) at the moment. But there are currently 55 Leaf's on TM for under $10k. You can buy one today for $5k if you can handle a 50-70km range and let's be honest, that would satisfy a significant number of households in NZ.

[polley 916]

Yeah imagine everyone driving around second hand EVs with f**ked batterys that get less than 100km to a charge. Gotta top it up every night when you get home. Electricity network struggles on a cold winter night nevermind everyone plugging in their EVs. 

[Michael. 2313]

The people suggesting to ban a technology they don't like should be banned themselves. 

 

[Sammo 2544]

Does anyone know what the 'official source of truth' is for car model CO2 emissions used to calculate the new April clean car rebates?

Hoping its not the 'Right Car' website as their info appears either incomplete or at odds with most other figures online.

Trying to get a rebate for the 2014 320d which should have emissions in the 130 range.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

4 hours ago, Sammo said:

Does anyone know what the 'official source of truth' is for car model CO2 emissions used to calculate the new April clean car rebates?

Hoping its not the 'Right Car' website as their info appears either incomplete or at odds with most other figures online.

Trying to get a rebate for the 2014 320d which should have emissions in the 130 range.

Yes, RightCar uses the official manufacturers information. It probably won’t have the F31 320d on there as only the xDrive version was sold new in NZ.

Worth noting the figures used for the calculations are WLTP 3P figures, not the NEDC which is probably what you will usually see quoted for a 2014 model.

As it’s a Jap import the responsibility for the information being provided lies with the importer of the vehicle and should have been provided to NZTA.

If you get real stuck let me know and I’ll see if I can help you out.

[Sammo 2544]

Yeah, I think it’s  down as an xdrive which has slightly higher emissions pushing it over the threshold…

[dirtydoogle 383]

You can down load a spreadsheet with the conversion rates from NEDC to WLTP-3P from here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/CCD-Calculator-2022-v1.02.xlsx&ved=2ahUKEwjulPej25D3AhXmJ0QIHahzDlcQFnoECAUQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw2Bv0AiyHzri80GGS75Nihn