BMW vs E10

[jon dee 500]

Topic has most likely been done to death but I see so many diverse opinions on the evils of ethanol that I thought I would post this bit of information. Currently I have a small problem with the BP outlet that I use. After driving across town to get to a station that has 98 on tap, I find that their counter terminals will not accept my card, even the brand new card that I ordered to try and overcome this problem. Fortunately, I had enough cash in my pocket to pay for the gas, but if that had not been the case there would have been a big problem. I might add that the card works fine everywhere else except for the BP station, likely because their terminals are old.

As a work around I checked to see if my nearest Mobil (a lot closer to home) had 98 on tap and they do, so I'll considering giving that a shot next time I need to fill up. If anyone has has legitimate problems after changing from BP to Mobil, I'd like to hear about it

Cheers...

[Matth5 471]

Used Gull's 98 in my E92 335i for a while along with the Stage 2+ MHD tune, didn't notice any issues from it. Occasionally I'd run BP 98. If yours is stock I'd say you're even less likely to have issues. My 335i was driven hard and saw the redline frequently. 

Maybe you shorten the life of the HPFP a tad as I think it has to work a little harder.

I recall the manual for the E90 series cars even stated up to 10% ethanol was considered fine. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Matth5

[GorGasm 563]

Use Gull 98 in my cars.  It's 30 cents a litre cheaper than BP, they can keep their overpriced petrol to themselves.

[lord_jagganath 421]

Using Mobil's 98. have noticed a major fuel efficiency reduction. don't know if that is because it is E10 related? 

Edit: Scratch that, it is some other issue, not E10 related. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by lord_jagganath

[M3AN 4016]

There's a Gull about to open 150m up the road from me, I have Mobil and BP 98 available to me about 1.5km as the crow flies.

Given the price, I'm of the mind that I will start using Gull 98 in the 130, not so sure about the M3 but I don't go through nearly as much fuel in that these days so am far less price sensitive. If Gull 98 won't hurt my 130 I'd be silly not to right?  

Edit: although I see Gull 98 (Force 10) has 10% ethanol with is 100% more than the European standard BMW mentions above... concern?

Edited April 27, 2021 by M3AN

[Matth5 471]

Just now, M3AN said:

There's a Gull about to open 150m up the road from me, I have Mobil and BP 98 available to me about 1.5km as the crow flies.

Given the price, I'm of the mind that I will start using Gull 98 in the 130, not so sure about the M3 but I don't go though nearly as much fuel in that these days so am far less price sensitive. If Gull 98 won't hurt my 130 I'd be silly not to right?  

Being an E36, the materials in your M3's fuel system were probably not designed with ethanol in mind. I'd say do some research before trying it on that car. The 130i though, I'm sure will be fine. I wonder if it even benefits from 98 over 95? Not much use going for a higher octane than what an engine was tuned for I think. 

[M3AN 4016]

1 minute ago, Matth5 said:

Being an E36, the materials in your M3's fuel system were probably not designed with ethanol in mind. I'd say do some research before trying it on that car. The 130i though, I'm sure will be fine. I wonder if it even benefits from 98 over 95? Not much use going for a higher octane than what an engine was tuned for I think. 

Car's running a 280hp tune, I'd never run it on 95 unless it was an emergency. Just edited my post above, the Gull 98 is 10% ethanol, I wonder if that much presents additional considerations?

Agree with your comments about the e36. 

[Matth5 471]

Ah if the tune is done with 98 in mind, then yes definitely stick with 98 otherwise there might be some knock which is not great for the engine 

I think due to the fact ethanol burns up faster, the cars fuel system does need to work a bit harder to pump more fuel and that is probably increased further by the tune. Probably just means some consumables might wear out a little earlier than they otherwise would have, doubt it'll cause anything disastrous. At lease you don't have the HPFP of the turbo models which is a bigger headache (and bill) when it has issues. 

When I was using MHD flash tunes on my 335i there would be various maps to choose from based on the octane you wanted to run. I know it's the same with my M4 (though I have yet to tune it, and don't plan to)

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Matth5

[jon dee 500]

Ethanol has about 30% less energy than gasoline per unit volume. So when you start mixing ethanol with gasoline you need to increase the volume of the mix burned per unit of time to produce the same energy as you produced with straight gasoline. This means that e10 will have about 3% less energy per litre than gasoline  requiring the fuel system to flow about 3% more volume to produce the same power. The recommended max ethanol mix for the stock n54 fuel system is e40 and will require about 14% more more flow, which is where the LPFP runs out of pressure/capacity. Gross over-simplification but you get the idea.

To run e85 it is actually necessary to flow approx 35% more fuel as high percentage ethanol mixes have to run richer than gasoline due to ethanol having a lower stoich. The performance benefits of e85 are considerable, especially for boosted engines. If was building a racecar it would either be on e85 of straight ethanol  

Below is the list of cars specified by BMW as requiring 98RON minimum.

Cheers...

[Driftit 2093]

Run Force 10 in all our cars. The 200sx was just tuned on it today.

However I don't recommend leaving it in your car for 5 years while you live in another country. Issues occur.

[Ninjaspartan 23]

I've used Gull 98 for the past 3+ years of owning my n54, no issues other than needing to upgrade the LPFP as the stock one was giving out and could not flow enough, but thats not e10 related. 

 

 

[jon dee 500]

OK... concensus seems to be that 98e10 works just as well as BP98 so I think that I will just start filling up at Mobil (2 minutes from home) and save myself a 15 minute drive each way to get BP98. I'm all for brand loyalty but I'm not prepared to have my card knocked back when I am at the head of a queue waiting to pay. I've used the same card at half a dozen other stores in the last couple of days and it works fine on modern terminals. Thanks for the input

Cheers...

[KwS 2429]

Why not download the BP app, link your card to it and use that to pay? Stop living in the stone age 🤣

 

[jon dee 500]

Can I do that with a NOKIA C5 3G ? That;s the only Tamagotchi that I have

Cheers...

[KwS 2429]

9 hours ago, jon dee said:

Can I do that with a NOKIA C5 3G ? That;s the only Tamagotchi that I have

Cheers...

Jesus, I was kidding about being in the stone age 😮

[jon dee 500]

Well, it goes like this... I don't wear a watch as my life is not measured in minutes. And I don't carry a phone as I am not available for random calls 24/7. I don't need a GPS as I know where I am going and I am not a cripple, so I can get out of my car, pump my own gas and walk into the store to pay for it at the counter.

Three hundred years ago humans trained animals to perform tricks for entertainment and make a little money. These days technology corporates train humans to perform tricks for entertainment and make a huge profits. Outside of that nothing much has changed in the world for centuries, so perhaps we really haven't left the stone age yet ?

Cheers...

PS: And I don't need a remote for my car stereo

[treone 649]

^^ This is hilarious and so true! Lovin it 😁 

To quote some rap lyrics from ‘84 - 

“...and don’t be a slave to no computer, huh!”

Edited April 28, 2021 by treone

[jon dee 500]

Rage Against The Machine - Guerrilla Radio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm1nCYOZB-s

Enjoy.... cheers...

[KwS 2429]

1 hour ago, jon dee said:

Well, it goes like this... I don't wear a watch as my life is not measured in minutes. And I don't carry a phone as I am not available for random calls 24/7. I don't need a GPS as I know where I am going and I am not a cripple, so I can get out of my car, pump my own gas and walk into the store to pay for it at the counter.

Three hundred years ago humans trained animals to perform tricks for entertainment and make a little money. These days technology corporates train humans to perform tricks for entertainment and make a huge profits. Outside of that nothing much has changed in the world for centuries, so perhaps we really haven't left the stone age yet ?

Cheers...

PS: And I don't need a remote for my car stereo

Ok Boomer 🤣

 

[jon dee 500]

Regardless of what your parents might have told you... closing your eyes DOES NOT make the boogie man go away

Cheers...

PS: Turn that sh*t up !!!!!

Edited April 29, 2021 by jon dee
In for emphasis :)

[treone 649]

Ok millennial 🤣 

Always remember this - the older you get, the wiser your parents become!

and we know whats coming for you 🤣🤣🤣

[jon dee 500]

Yes... I have noticed that in some societies there has been this curious trend to categorise people into generations or age bands, and then make the broadest of broad assumptions that being in a particular age band means that a person will behave or think in a certain way. This is a simplification so stunning in its naivety that I can only assume that it is an attempt to create divisions in society and set one generation against another. Kind of like the warfare games so popular on US TV... after the democrats vs the republicans, next up the millennials vs the boomers... followed by the British vs the Irish, Russia vs the Ukraine and for the grand finale, Muslims vs the whole western World !!!

However, the plot fails when the person being categorised is unfamiliar with (and does not care) which division he/she is supposed to be playing in, and therefore does not know how he/she is supposed to act and think. Generalisations are useful to a point, but when they become a means of turning one age group, minority, race or religion against another it's time to rethink the rules. Just saying... no offence intended to any person living or dead

Cheers...

[Ninjaspartan 23]

23 hours ago, jon dee said:

OK... concensus seems to be that 98e10 works just as well as BP98 so I think that I will just start filling up at Mobil (2 minutes from home) and save myself a 15 minute drive each way to get BP98. I'm all for brand loyalty but I'm not prepared to have my card knocked back when I am at the head of a queue waiting to pay. I've used the same card at half a dozen other stores in the last couple of days and it works fine on modern terminals. Thanks for the input

Cheers...

Isn't Mobil 98 straight gasoline with no ethanol content? I thought it was only Gull 98 that was e10?

 

[smiddy 76]

Thought gull 98- was 91octane with 10% ethanol added.??

[Ninjaspartan 23]

57 minutes ago, smiddy said:

Thought gull 98- was 91octane with 10% ethanol added.??

I believe Gull is 95 gasoline with 10% ethanol.