E61 M5 Touring life

[Jun 233]

Sorry to hear this.  Yes the water is supposed to be near 80C because the thermostat is opens on 79C.  Sorry no screen shots just my old memory recall when I had an expansion tank crack.  I monitored the water temp and oil (see my thread) at that time.  Here is some info I copied from the thread that might be relevant.  What you have described is correct the oil temp does go up 90c - ish in about 12 mins as per my notes.  It would sit there, can go up near 100C if you gun it but goes back in about a minute on idle.

If I get to run the car on the weekend I might try graph the water temp, so you can compare with a newly installed thermostat is like.  From what I recall it just really shoots up in the first 5 mins, then just bounces in the 80C area.... +/-5C I think... not sure.  My fan hardly runs, when it is hot it would turn on for a few secs then off.  I only heard the fan run for more than a minute when I had the electrical gremlins caused by wheel sensor...
 

Quote

- oil temp 75c after 10 mins, normal increase of temp 

- oil temp 85-90c 12 mins, still normal expected warm up

So I have to just wait for new expansion tank.  They also suggested to change the thermostat as sometimes it gets damaged on high temps.  I will do that, but I think the thermostat is fine.  During my drive home, I plug in a scanner.  On my phone I can see the temp go up to 80 C in 10 mins or so.  I also see the temp being stable at 80 C afterwards, so I think it is ok (my diagnosis, not Powerhaus).  I will replace the thermostat regardless.  They also advice to get the oil change as soon as practical, I will do that when we back from our trip.

 

[Twistee 453]

Thanks Jun,

Here is a link to the oil temp finally getting close to normal (took half an hour of driving) and the needle hunting, I bumped RPM and then turned on the heater to see if there were any observable changes. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zxtk5w1k5CE4TA337   (Note that the vibration from the camera later in the vid is amplified as I was zoomed in - the engine does have a harmonic around 2k)

This is where my typical temp sits at nice and stable (no hunting) unless I fang it. 

Edited May 2 by Twistee

[Jun 233]

I had a quick look (fast forward and skipping some sections) at the 3 min video.  I really don't know if it's not normal or not.  My needle does move slightly, but from recollection it usually goes hotter, likely doesn't go colder.  However, since I don't really look at in detail, I would probably not be able look at it well if it goes cooler.  It definitely moves slower than yours... but perspective can be different when you zoom into the needle.  What is probably unusual or just different from our car, we are definitely up to normal oil temp in less than 15 mins.  From my data before it was 12 mins, which is just about right as this usually about the time I pass through a tunnel near our place.... that is why I know it's less than 15 mins.  Typical routine: Start M5, move other cars, takes about 2-3 mins.... do the usual commute I should hit the tunnel just around less than 10 mins... by that time the car has been running around 15 mins.... then it's GO time!  

[Twistee 453]

34 minutes ago, Jun said:

I had a quick look (fast forward and skipping some sections) at the 3 min video.  I really don't know if it's not normal or not.  My needle does move slightly, but from recollection it usually goes hotter, likely doesn't go colder.  However, since I don't really look at in detail, I would probably not be able look at it well if it goes cooler.  It definitely moves slower than yours... but perspective can be different when you zoom into the needle.  What is probably unusual or just different from our car, we are definitely up to normal oil temp in less than 15 mins.  From my data before it was 12 mins, which is just about right as this usually about the time I pass through a tunnel near our place.... that is why I know it's less than 15 mins.  Typical routine: Start M5, move other cars, takes about 2-3 mins.... do the usual commute I should hit the tunnel just around less than 10 mins... by that time the car has been running around 15 mins.... then it's GO time!  

Cheers, my experience until this started was pretty much as you describe. Warm up in 15 minutes to a stable solid temp and then the temp only ever increases when I get angry with it, it certainly doesn't move in the other direction. 

BMWorkshop did mention that the DME could be dying....... and that this and the random radiator fan action is just electrical gremlins as a result. 

[Jun 233]

32 minutes ago, Twistee said:

Cheers, my experience until this started was pretty much as you describe. Warm up in 15 minutes to a stable solid temp and then the temp only ever increases when I get angry with it, it certainly doesn't move in the other direction. 

BMWorkshop did mention that the DME could be dying....... and that this and the random radiator fan action is just electrical gremlins as a result. 

Electrical gremlins are hard, in my case I am glad it turned out to be just a speed sensor.  It did take me a new battery, IBS and maybe more than a year of anxiety unable to know what is wrong as it would not consistently appear.  You might want to ask @promo about DME stuff.  I haven't read any DME issues, its likely an uncommon thing.  Maybe good to get a 2nd opinion?  I think M-Tech guy was looking to get a 2nd hand DME, but then I saw his video and the symptoms was similar and told him it just a speed sensor.   I am just speculating here, but I think the networking of these cars and later has gone so complicated and not resilient that corner cases makes the car do weird actions.

[Twistee 453]

I did another symptom hunt on Google and found a thread on the M5Board with very similar issues. The same things were experienced by a few people, turned out to be either the radiator fan, the alternator / voltage reg, or the DME as the main culprits. 

There is no doubt that all BMW can bus setups and modules throw fantastic red herrings, how many times has my SMG apparently been on the verge of dying and red cogged - when the reality is the battery voltage is just lower than ideal on cold start. Currently this is all covered under warranty, so I can't really reach out to Promo without complicating things just yet. Thanks for the details though.

[aja540i 1906]

Mine lives on the centre line unless I give it some jandal and it swings a few mm to the hot side, my thermostat and alternator voltage regulator have both been done and I am running the BMW shell oil. Usually only takes about 10 minutes to get to temp, and I have never seen it dip below the centre line while running.

[Jun 233]

Sorry I wasn't able to graph the water temp over the weekend.  The car was already running more than 5 mins when I remembered, so likely the water will be close to 80C by then.  I did try to observe the oil temp, about 8-10 mins it's on the 75C (the first line).  Then by about 12-ish mins it's about 85-90C a little less than your photo above, rpm gauge on the full 8250 limit.  Then this slowly creeps just before 100C from 15-20 mins.  So it really goes up really fast, then the last 5-10C it's slowly gets there.  It would not go lower/colder once it is near the 100C, will only get hotter when you floor it then goes back quickly below 100C.  Ambient temp was about 13-16C outside, as a reference.  Good luck and let us know what eventually the root cause is.  I don't think something is totally broken, but there are definitely some symptoms of something is not working 100% correctly.

[Twistee 453]

I finally got a follow up from the assessor today regarding the piss poor panel and paint recently completed on the M5. I guess I still live under that stupid assumption that there is some form of professionalism in the world, and that when a highly rated paint and panel shop makes a huge f*ck up that they will stand behind that crazy guarantee that everyone loves to throw around and fix their work. 

The Classic Cover assessor has been fantastic, the duration of this process has nothing to do with him and everything to do with Takapuna Panelbeaters who when held accountable for their work flat out refused to remedy anything - noting that this was all done via the assessor, I was not some emotional customer going in and ranting at the owner. Long story short Classic Cover will reclaim the money that went to them and I have to start over and find a reputable (starting to think such a thing does not exist) repairer to fix this disaster. 

As much as I want to troll the living daylights out them it's not going to change the situation, other than the ongoing reminder of a sh*t job every time I look at the car it could be worse. Everything happens for a reason, and in my experience karma normally takes care of the rest.

So f*ck them, I'm not telling anyone to stay away from that crowd but I'm certainly never going to recommend them.....try Hire a hubby, they do painting and probably a better job.

Back to square one FFS  this is just a bump in the road, soon enough it will be fixed.

 

[Vass 830]

Makes me want to see some pics now

[Twistee 453]

1 hour ago, Vass said:

Makes me want to see some pics now

I have avoided taking pictures for the sake of my blood pressure, but seeing as you asked so nicely the next time it's not pissing down  I'll grab some. At least I'll have pics for the camp fire when I'm 80 reminiscing about that time I had a v10 family wagon that I let a blind painter spray..... 

Edited May 14 by Twistee

[C-130 Hercules 571]

My first place of call would be Ray Hasler. Might pay to check them out? 

[Twistee 453]

29 minutes ago, C-130 Hercules said:

My first place of call would be Ray Hasler. Might pay to check them out? 

Looks like a pro setup, but I can't see anywhere that mentions they do insurance work - they mention being approved repairer for various manufacturers, I don't know how that relates to what I need though. If they do insurance* then I will definitely be checking them out. Thanks for the info.

*Some googling later and reading reviews it does look like they do insurance work.

Edited May 14 by Twistee

[aja540i 1906]

I have used By Accident in Birkenhead several times for minor repairs on the M5, bumpers, side skirts etc, and can't  fault their work. Bit of a pain for you to get to but might be worth it if you can't find anyone closer?

[JohnM575 112]

Can highly recommend Precision AutoWerk. Have used them a couple of times for claims through Classic Cover. Great to deal with and excellent work each time. 

[C-130 Hercules 571]

17 hours ago, Twistee said:

Looks like a pro setup, but I can't see anywhere that mentions they do insurance work - they mention being approved repairer for various manufacturers, I don't know how that relates to what I need though. If they do insurance* then I will definitely be checking them out. Thanks for the info.

*Some googling later and reading reviews it does look like they do insurance work.

They have done so in the past. 

[Neil McCauley 394]

Ray Haslar does great work, though I think Ray himself sold up a few years ago? They definitely do insurance work!

Damn shame to hear about Takapuna Panelbeaters, they were once the go-to for E30 repairs, a lot of the racecar guys used them.

Precision is still probably the cost-no-object choice on the Shore, their work speaks for itself.

Wakefield did a great job on my E500, Nicholson & Hauraki I've dealt with in the past and have had good experiences with.

Coast Panel & Paint up in Whangaparoa are much smaller than the big players but do great work, they've looked after plenty of E24's / E30's and Alpina's in the past.

[Twistee 453]

Cheers Neil,

I'm very aware of TP's history, both on an off track. Noted about Ray Hasler, I'm interested in Precision. Right now my short list is anything that has BMW approval, recommendations from people that have actually used the repairer recently, and an establishment that looks more like a showroom than a broom closet with a paint booth slapped in the corner. I live in rural south Auckland, so location of the panel shop is not an issue as everything is miles away. 

 

[C-130 Hercules 571]

Most important is that you get a good feel for the place and talk to the owner / senior tradesman and explain what you are after. If they are proud of their work they should happily show you some recent / current work. If if starts to feel like you are taking up their time its a bad sign. My 2c

[Twistee 453]

17 minutes ago, C-130 Hercules said:

Most important is that you get a good feel for the place and talk to the owner / senior tradesman and explain what you are after. If they are proud of their work they should happily show you some recent / current work. If if starts to feel like you are taking up their time its a bad sign. My 2c

Thanks, totally agree with all of that especially your last point.

[Twistee 453]

 

Just a quick pic of the subtle blend on the drivers door, nice clean spray fan blocked out under the wing mirror - no that's not me half ass cleaning the car, the painter did a permanent version of that for me, and yes they are two completely different colours.....  That was the first thing I saw when the car was in the sun after collecting it, it just gets worse. I'll grab plenty of clear images of the rest, may as well document everything. 

Edited May 17 by Twistee

[Twistee 453]

And just to make it really clear that this is not some shadow, red line is the edge of the blend.

[Palazzo 477]

As I’m fond of saying when viewing a poor tradesman’s job, that looks like I did it.

[Neil McCauley 394]

Was it bring your Pinball Wizard to work day?

[Twistee 453]

I don't know how easily I can capture the paint on the bonnet in a photo, but the base went on so dry that it looks like 20 shades of overlapping metallic.