Apex

He is no doubt an old school dealer who doesn't need money, the type that say things like "its not a fish mate, it wont go off in the sun"

Yup, this has been posted in Bimmersport 43 times. At this rate it will be worth what he is asking in about 30 years when they are rare and collectible. I do like the wheels and tyres on it.

Yes I am ignorant. I drive on a lot of gravel and if I wish to drive fast I simply turn it off, your average driver does not drive on gravel let alone drive fast on gravel and I would argue that if you were driving slowly on gravel as most inexperienced drivers do you will have no problems with the driving aids. Directional tyres are hopeless on gravel too, should we start fitting cross ply to all cars because a very small percentage of drivers will drive down a gravel road? Glad to see you found the off switch, maybe education is lacking, maybe people need to get a better understanding of how their machines operate? A lot of cars have a rear beam, its compact, light, simple in operation and cheap to manufacture meaning it is fitted to economy cars. Both my rally car and road car have a rear beam and they handle ok, the lift off over steer is not for everyone but once you learn to drive it you can take advantage of quick turn in and balance on the throttle, cant say I experience undresteer. Once again it comes down to how the driver is operating the vehicle, if you are driving normally you wont have issue.

Seems good value. These are sort after and will appreciate over time if looked after.

So it didn't play out like this? Because this is how I imagine all Supra encounters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJSjR1Zg0mo

Welcome. First off, great name, possibly the best name on the forum, AFAIK you make number 3 Graham, other ways of spelling it are incorrect. Why not just move to Hamilton, its no less a shithole than Auckland, probably cheaper to live etc.

Can they not just switch it off?

Once again I think we are discounting the drivers ability, the ESP system and ABS in most cars will only intervene when we do something very wrong and it will be felt, some of you seem to think people drive around with the car doing the driving for them completely oblivious to how to drive car, some cars wont have the stability control kick in their entire lives. I agree most divers suck compared to us ( ) but most of the time they are going way too slow not to fast. And no sh*t 80% or more of accidents happen when people cross the white line, that's like saying 85% of people who brake their arm fall over.

We are what we drive. I ask, what does your car say about you and what perception do you have of yourself, what do you think other people think when they see you on the road in your chosen form of transport. I could comment on what people think when they see a late middle aged man in a old cheap BMW but it may offend. This is a serious bargain. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/renault/auction-658512971.htm

I like your thinking. People would drive even slower with an even greater fear of driving. Most of New Zealands fleet are old cars so most of our drivers are still driving around in non "aided" mediocre cars with marginal safety levels anyway. It will be another 10 years before the average catches up, most people still think a car from the year 2000 is modern. I am still thank full for stability control and feel safe in the thought most of my loved ones cars are equipped with it.

Maybe you should slow down? I disagree, there are no new cars that are worse than their 10 yea old equivalent, its driver aids giving a free pass for bad drivers more like. I would post a challenge even. I will drive a Hyundai I-Load van on a back road and you see if you can keep with it in a modest medium sized sedan from the 90's.

Ha, he was a forum member actually, granted he drove it quite well My Cup does 1.11's stock standard on the old track, high 1.19's around Hampton Downs stock standard

Tempted.. I already have 2 but also have a full set of OEM Cup spec suspension, KYB dampers and Eiback springs and a spare set of freshly painted 18" R26 wheels. Great value car for the money, it looks funny but you wont find much that will be as fast or as comfortable for the money.. I have seen a stock one of these do a 1.13 around Pukekohe old track.

If you have that attitude you will be fine, you may need more than a Hanes manual on occasion and some good tools, some jobs can be frustrating.

Only problem with buying a vintage M5 from the UK is that it is bound to be a bits rusty in the undercarriage. Or just buy this as a family wagon! http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/other/buick/auction-656952828.htm

But what he says is true though, you cant argue with that. I would not recommend an old European car to anyone unless they are an enthusiast. He judges a vehicle purely on reliability and safety and does not account for street cred and driving enjoyment, he writes these publications for non car enthusiasts. There is no real need to get upset when he puts down a brand, its not personal and to be honest I would sooner a family member take advice from his book than a car dealer. I just think he is a douche bag because he doesn't work hard enough and simply rehashes the same old crap and his books are full of mistakes.

Car jam wont care, they are too busy jamming your money! Best you can do is stalk forums for a balanced view on potential models, join a Alfa forum and ask people what goes wrong, you will generally get a lot of response and members will let you know what to expect. I don't trust the opinion of anyone who has had less than first hand ownership experience anymore.

He is like a property valuer. They look at one house on one street and then generalize the whole streets value and then work out updated value's based on houses recently sold in the area. Anyone can do it, its money for jam, most of the time they don't even have to leave their desk to make $500. His guide is only useful for soulless people who have never seen a car before. Must say though, most of us are as guilty as him when it comes to generalizing brands, especially those of witch we have never actually used, I know from years of driving all sorts of Euro cars.

Congrats Steve, 2nd in Modern 2WD and 4th out right, awesome result for a new build car. Pat on the back for Bimmersports fastest car, shows its who's behind the wheel not what power you have at the wheels!

Agree with this, the guy is a f**king hack, your average car enthusiast knew more about cars than this guy at the age of 10, it will be purely because he is not affiliated with other media outlets like Herald etc, I would be interested to hear the opinion of a proper motoring journalist on the matter.

Interesting view point. IMHO Its not about the cars at all, most modern cars handle well if driven properly, tyre technology, increased stiffness of chassis and advances in suspension makes this so. Its about the drivers. I am all for stability control, they do work and to say they don't is just ignorant, the modern ones are especially clever, I have been sat in the passenger seat of my old E60 when the driver was not paying attention and tried to take a 65kph corner at 100Kph, the car understeered wide onto the wrong side of the road where the stability control kicked in, at the same time the driver tried to counter correct and the stability control stopped the car from tank slapping back the other way, if the car did not have the stability control we would have under steered off the road and tested the secondary safety systems! My response was In regards to the "people are going to die" comment mad by captain douche bag, I would personally just like to see some credit or responsibility given back to the operator of the vehicle is all, to say people are going to die because the car has no systems is just stupid PC nanny state bullshit.

There are three of these for sale at the moment, all the same colour! 10k is what they are worth realistically. Would not recommend one of these to anyone who is adverse to spending a lot of money in upkeep, local part prices and servicing is ridiculous, like Porsche ridiculous.

Is there no accounting for the driver anymore? I mean people drove for over 100 years before stability control was even an option on high end cars and now all of a sudden its dangerous for a car not to have it? Lets just hope they don't make it illegal to have an OFF switch.

As do I, they look awesome, if you drive one of these you will have people complimenting your car all the time, trust me, I own two and you cant stop anywhere without people complimenting the car, we have had people walk up to us in supermarkets just to say how cool they think our car is. For this I would not recommend one if you are a wall flower or don't like talking to random people in public. I'm guessing it will sell in the next week. These cars don't stay for sale long and a lot of people wait for them to come up for sale. I would pay 18k for it, it may sell for more though but that is where I would be offering. At the millage it is at now and if it hasnt been to a track I would not expect it needs anything doing untill the cambelt at 5 years or 100,000km.