Beggers can be choosers SUV.

[JaseNZ 53]

Sorry but i just do not see the point in buying something like this.

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[Guest Ari Gold]

Sounds just like NZ base spec to me?

[Neal 544]

Still a higher spec than my orginal E21 323i. Some people may have dreamt about owning a new BMW all there life.

Remember the days before Jap imports and how expensive new & second hand BMW's were ? I think this is similar to China at the moment. Just as well they don't import secondhand BMW's from Japan. Imagine what would happen here to prices if these dried up.

edit , starting to sound like an old bugger eh

Edited May 22, 2012 by Neal

[NZ BMW 368]

Sorry but i just do not see the point in buying something like this.

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Agree, all it does is send the brand down market.

Still I guess that strategy has worked for VW in China, they've been there for years selling de-spec'd cars and have done quite well.

Sadly for BMW they might be johnny come lately to the party.

[Apex 693]

I have seen quite a few Jap imports in beggars spec with little more than a steering wheel, I remember when the E36 come out you could buy a version with full wind down windows and un painted bumpers at a low cost, its nothing new and gives people the opportunity to have a badge without the price tag. Makes sense as most people buy new BMW's for the badge anyhow.

[allan 295]

Sorry have to disagree on this one it is time BMW got real on it's pricing structures. It's insane the amount of profit that is being made on items these day, not just cars. Don't get me wrong a company needs to made a proof to stay in business yes. But a the cost of losing it's current client's and potentially new ones because the price is to high and they, the customers can get a similar product else were for less. Doesn't sound like good business sense to me, sell at a lower price and sell more than at a higher price and only sell one just my ten cents for the day.

[Apex 693]

Agreed. Its 2012 not 1992, a humble Ford Focus at under 40k NZ has multimedia center with sat-nav and other luxury items you don't get for free on luxury brand cars costing twice as much.

You can argue the dynamic advantages of a luxury brand car until you are blue in the face but the truth is there is very little distinguishing them in real world terms when out on the road day to day driving.

[Palazzo 477]

I thought he meant who would buy an X1?

I'm pretty sure VW have dropped prices in NZ over the last 5-10 years and seen their sales go up significantly, the Coke Golfs are a pretty good sign they are competitively priced. Still seen as a premium brand too.

[nath 134]

Sorry have to disagree on this one it is time BMW got real on it's pricing structures. It's insane the amount of profit that is being made on items these day, not just cars. Don't get me wrong a company needs to made a proof to stay in business yes. But a the cost of losing it's current client's and potentially new ones because the price is to high and they, the customers can get a similar product else were for less. Doesn't sound like good business sense to me, sell at a lower price and sell more than at a higher price and only sell one just my ten cents for the day.

You can't sell luxury goods to luxury buyers at a low price. High price is part of the exclusivity which that market strives for.

There is an amount of satisfaction in being able to pay a high price for something provided that it means someone else cannot. Niche etc...

Edited May 23, 2012 by nath

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

These flash looking but poverty cars would probably have a good market in NZ.

Am looking at post-2010 cars for the last 6 months, but you just cant buy a basic car anymore no matter the manufacturer. I just want new car reliability, warranties, and safety but dont want to spend on things like power windows, multimedia cents and triturbo-engines that are standard on eveything these days. Think the spec of an E30 316i which has everything you REALLY need bar the safety of modern cars, and no frills at all. The only cars that have nothing are about two foot long and would struggle to hold the golf clubs that appear to be the standard unit of measurement these days let alone the groceries/pushchair etc. Nothing at a usable size.

[Apex 693]

I thought he meant who would buy an X1?

I'm pretty sure VW have dropped prices in NZ over the last 5-10 years and seen their sales go up significantly, the Coke Golfs are a pretty good sign they are competitively priced. Still seen as a premium brand too.

Haha Ask DRTDVL how the Coke Golfs are going, he mentioned that near the entire fleet are on their second or third gearbox and they have up to 7 cars at VW getting fixed at any one time. He also mentioned they have moved to Kia's. If you want the skinny on whats good and whats not talk to a fleet manager.

These flash looking but poverty cars would probably have a good market in NZ.

Am looking at post-2010 cars for the last 6 months, but you just cant buy a basic car anymore no matter the manufacturer. I just want new car reliability, warranties, and safety but dont want to spend on things like power windows, multimedia cents and triturbo-engines that are standard on eveything these days. Think the spec of an E30 316i which has everything you REALLY need bar the safety of modern cars, and no frills at all. The only cars that have nothing are about two foot long and would struggle to hold the golf clubs that appear to be the standard unit of measurement these days let alone the groceries/pushchair etc. Nothing at a usable size.

That's bull sh*t, I'm not sure how realistic your budget is or said car but there are plenty of options. You can still buy a shed load of basic no thrills cars that are 5-Star safety rated and economical. Look at Corolla for example, basic 1.8 Twincam, no thrills packaging, same with most Jap and Korean cars.

You can still buy a 116i with just the basics... I don't know why you would though.

Focus, under 30k. Great value. http://fordhotdeals.co.nz/

[NZ BMW 368]

These flash looking but poverty cars would probably have a good market in NZ.

Am looking at post-2010 cars for the last 6 months, but you just cant buy a basic car anymore no matter the manufacturer. I just want new car reliability, warranties, and safety but dont want to spend on things like power windows, multimedia cents and triturbo-engines that are standard on eveything these days. Think the spec of an E30 316i which has everything you REALLY need bar the safety of modern cars, and no frills at all. The only cars that have nothing are about two foot long and would struggle to hold the golf clubs that appear to be the standard unit of measurement these days let alone the groceries/pushchair etc. Nothing at a usable size.

Great Wall?

[dubman 39]

You can buy new long wheel based A4 2.4's for around 50k NZD in China. Its all about branding and "face" value over there. Long wheel based 5 series sold out in a few hours when introduced in 2010. BMW just wants a share of the market , the average person that buy cars in China doesnt care about electric windows or satnav, as long as they have a car that appears to make them better off than their neighbours/friends/colleagues/cousins is pretty much all that matters. You can still buy fully optioned cars, but no ones going to look inside it or know the difference either way.

[Michael. 2313]

Sadly its become too much about buying the badge rather than a good BMW with the right engine and the options you actually want.

It's certainly ruined the exclusivity of the BMW that once existed.

[E30-323ti 66]

"Beggar's" in China with 50-large for a brand new SUV = :rofl:

In a country with a $4,360 NZD avarage wage (2011), whom ever branded someone's new anything a "Beggar's Edition" needs an eSlap.....

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Great Wall?

Yep, Chery though is the cars, but that brings up a good point..

Haha Ask DRTDVL how the Coke Golfs are going, he mentioned that near the entire fleet are on their second or third gearbox and they have up to 7 cars at VW getting fixed at any one time. He also mentioned they have moved to Kia's. If you want the skinny on whats good and whats not talk to a fleet manager.

That's bull sh*t, I'm not sure how realistic your budget is or said car but there are plenty of options. You can still buy a shed load of basic no thrills cars that are 5-Star safety rated and economical. Look at Corolla for example, basic 1.8 Twincam, no thrills packaging, same with most Jap and Korean cars.

You can still buy a 116i with just the basics... I don't know why you would though.

Focus, under 30k. Great value. http://fordhotdeals.co.nz/

Its not so much as how realistic my budget is, its more about what they are charging for basic car. The Toyota Corolla is still $35k+ for a basic car, the Focus above is a tenner under $30k, whereas a Chery is $16k with similar or better base spec and even includes leather seats (which is a $4k option on anything out of europe i might add). Despite Toyota and Fords economies of scale with not only the cars themselves but less overheads, why are they over twice as much?

Ive driven the Chery, and its not a sack of sh*t. You get what you pay for, but thats the goal in the first place. And before it comes up who cares if the corolla lasts 25 years whereas the Chery may only last 5-10 years... how many original owner cars still have thier car 5 years later, let alone 25 years? The corolla would have lost $16k of value in depreciation over the same period.

Not only that, but at $30-40k, you are starting to get into 2nd hand BMW and Merc teritory.

Not having a go btw, just sort of stating where im coming from for a daily. Yes i can afford a new Corolla or whatever, but i dont think my E30 is going to need $30k-odd of repairs in the next 3 years, nor do i think the added saftey is worth that either when im in a 50kmh area in that car for 95% of the time i drive it.

Then again maybe im off my rocker again

[Palazzo 477]

Haha Ask DRTDVL how the Coke Golfs are going, he mentioned that near the entire fleet are on their second or third gearbox and they have up to 7 cars at VW getting fixed at any one time. He also mentioned they have moved to Kia's. If you want the skinny on whats good and whats not talk to a fleet manager.

That's bull sh*t, I'm not sure how realistic your budget is or said car but there are plenty of options. You can still buy a shed load of basic no thrills cars that are 5-Star safety rated and economical. Look at Corolla for example, basic 1.8 Twincam, no thrills packaging, same with most Jap and Korean cars.

You can still buy a 116i with just the basics... I don't know why you would though.

Focus, under 30k. Great value. http://fordhotdeals.co.nz/

I said competitively priced, not competitive quality!

I was happy to see my 4.5 year old R32 go with the a/c failing and due a major DSG service. Probably the deciding factor was pulling into traffic to find a box full of neutrals.

[Apex 693]

Everything.

[liyi_92 37]

Being from Taiwan, I would say this is the "Beggar Edition" as most moderate income families can afford it without too much problem. In Asia not many people buy second hand cars and in most asian countries there is a HUGE tax on cars (200 - 250%) just for importing and tax to run every year (similar to rego in nz) according to engine size. People who drive BMW, Mercs, Audi are viewed as very rich people in asia. People there who buy these car usually buy the higher spec models (eg. X5, X6, 5, 6, 7) therefore people refer the lower spec models as "beggar edition"

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Sorry have to disagree on this one it is time BMW got real on it's pricing structures. It's insane the amount of profit that is being made on items these day, not just cars.

I have worked in the automotive industry in some shape or form for most of my 20+ years of working life, and during that time I have always found it interesting how the vast majority of people believe that car companies are making huge profits.

It may have been reported that BMW has just announced record first quarter profits, but when you consider the amount of capital employed to make that profit the return is miniscule, you would be better off putting your money in a bank!

Yes cars are expensive items to buy, probably second only to a house for most people, but the profit margins involved are much, much lower than most other industries, even in the Premium Brand / Luxury markets.

The cost of developing new models or even new technologies (which are then copied with no contribution by the lower end of the market) is astronomical and is often overlooked in the equation. If Holden spent over AU$1 BILLION on the VE Commodore, how much do you think a new 3-series or 5-series would cost? Then try and recover the costs of that development over the smaller production volumes...

Or you could try speaking to a dealer about the huge profits they are making on new cars and see what kind of reaction you get.

[antil33t 90]

Sadly its become too much about buying the badge rather than a good BMW with the right engine and the options you actually want.

It's certainly ruined the exclusivity of the BMW that once existed.

I've never given a f**k about brand exclusivity.

I like BMW for what they make and do, not because it sounds good.