Quick rant thread.

[gjm 3258]

2 minutes ago, richard said:

I don't think regulating/WOF would fix the problem. Its a circular thing. All the rubbish comes to the surface after a housing surge trying to gain an advantage . You'll start see rent to own soon.

And many/lots of houses are 70+ years old now.

I like the idea of rent to own. Haven't really looked into what it would involve.

[gjm 3258]

Let's not make this political. I can rip massive holes in the National position on this based on their own implementation of the bright line test, their extension of the brightline test, and their delayed implementation of other taxation which took place after they weren't re-elected. Criticising Labour for their housing policy is fair, but National doing it is a laugh. National are the party of 'there is no housing problem' - at least Labour are acknowledging it (although not doing a great job of sorting it).

As for tax breaks - that's typically a National carrot, not a Labour one. They trot it out at most elections.

I'm not a massive Labour supporter but National are really pissing me off at the moment. No policy, nothing to contribute, just lots of sniping, whinging, moaning and the like. And some National supporters are seeming increasingly like Trump supporters - they can do no wrong. A friend who was screaming and shouting about Labour introducing taxation on some older aircon refrigerant threw an absolute fit when I raised that National had implemented it in a staged fashion, with a significant tax hike scheduled for earlier this year,. He also compplains about how Labour are only 'in' as a result of other parties backing them and that more people voted for National than voted for Labour, but overlooks that more people didn't vote for National than voted for other parties (collectively).

Damn. Who do I vote for? ?

/politics (We should treat the forum like a pub. No politics. No religion. ?    And yes - I can be as bad as anyone else. Apologies to all.)

CGT... Could work. Not if taken in the form of all recommendations by the working group, but the vast majority of 1st world nations have it in one form or another, so saying it won't work is rubbish.
Keep it away from the family home. Yes - that can be abused, but it'll be a tiny number of cases when compared to housesales generally.
If implementing CGT, scrap the brightline test. Anyone want to describe brightline in a different way? Perhaps as a targeted CGT?
I have no specific issue with CGT, but I grew up with it. As I have said, there are currently 33000 homes in Auckland alone which are registered empty, yet we have a housing problem. Those houses, when sold, will mainly garner a huge profit for the seller. That profit is (in effect) unearned income - tax it.
The biggest issue with CGT is addressing what is a reasonable gain, and what is clear profit. I've seen propert investors and speculators (NOT landlords) moaning about CGT, but they are going to. They will pay the most. "Are we supposed to keep track of all our expenditure on these properties?" Yes - you f&%^$%^ well are. It's a business. It's what you're supposed to do. You get a tax break for you expenses on property upkeep - why shouldn't a regular homeowner get the same?

The (investment) property market has been milked at both ends for too long.

Set a threshold on CGT. If you make more than a specified amount in a set period of time, you pay CGT. The amount and the time could be scaled.

CGT on other investment gains? Stocks and shares? Yup. 

CGT on pensions and Kiwisaver...? Hmm. More difficult. These are an investment, after all. Perhpas not... Could this mean more investment in pension funds with less likelihood of shortfalls?

CGT on cars...? Don't laugh - look at the price of things like E30 M3s now. Most good ones are now being bought as an investment, not to be driven. In many cases, a threshold would mean these won't be affected, but...? 

For me, the most important thing to remember is that CGT is only paid on realisation of a profit. It's a tax on the profit meaning that profit may be reduced, but CGT won't (in itself) cause a loss. And where investment property is concerned, it'll affect less than 5% of people selling in NZ anyway. Put t threshold in and the only loss that will be made will be a result of poor investment or poor management.

Is it a good idea? Take a slightly longer view. If one majority NZ political party (or coaliton) were to implement CGT and then lose the next election, would the incoming party scrap it, or would they happily continue to acquire the billions in tax it is said to bring?

[Jacko 2153]

5 minutes ago, richard said:

I don't think regulating/WOF would fix the problem. Its a circular thing. All the rubbish comes to the surface after a housing surge trying to gain an advantage . You'll start see rent to own soon.

And many/lots of houses are 70+ years old now.

The 70+ year old ones are some of the better ones from what weve been looking at, better built and often better maintained. Some of the 2000's (even post 06 leakyhomegate) are just rubbish and some wont be standing in 10 more years! 

 

[richard 384]

2 minutes ago, Jacko said:

The 70+ year old ones are some of the better ones from what weve been looking at, better built and often better maintained. Some of the 2000's (even post 06 leakyhomegate) are just rubbish and some wont be standing in 10 more years! 

 

That's kind of my point, If I can call it anything it'd be "Generational homes" as times changed.

Older house up to the 1950- early 60s had no insulation walls and ceilings, galvanized pipes for water, steel condute to carry wiring that are prone to cracking and stating house fires, borer, lead paint. 

1970-early 1990 still no insulation in walls , asbestos weather boards, plastic piping that's prone to splitting and leak lead paint.

1990-2006 weather tightness with poor products used on the exterior.

2006-today workmanship, and the products they have to use to produce the cheapest house possible. (mass produced houses with copy and paste plans) not the one off houses built for owner/occupier.

This is a very basic overview , I've not gone into structures  like piles, types of timber and design

It would be a cluster and the TAX payer will end up picking up the cost.

 

[Olaf 3314]

I have no issue with the theory of CGT, and agree that implementing a very well-considered and carefully constructed one, in Godzone, would be acceptable... particularly with a further simplification of the tax system... such as drop to 20% taxation (as an example), or similar.  The implementation must go hand-in-hand with doing something *useful* with the increased tax haul.  You simply cannot discuss this *stab at CGT* and ignore the politics of why and how; the current proposal and the drivers to do so are plain stupid.  

If I buy two rentals in the next three years, and get them paid off by retirement, I'll be very happy.  I'll have paid tax on my labour to generate the deposits, I'll have paid tax to all of the professions and trades hired to acquire, maintain, and manage these properties and their tenants.  I'll have paid tax on the income.  Sure, tax me some more if I want to sell them to fund my retirement, to ease my sorry old bones burden on the state as I age.  I guess I'll be better off holding them, and living off of the income they'll generate, evil landlord eh?  

Guess I should invest in the NZX.  Except that there's sod-all protection for retail investors in NZ, IMHO.  Errant directors are slapped with a wet bus ticket.  I'll do my equities investing offshore, thanks very much.  And pay taxes here, as a good citizen. 

I cannot get past the arguments offered that "because other countries do it, New Zealand should do it... and piss the gains away".  I'm paraphrasing of course.  Were they all given a reading list with Robin Hood at it's head, before beginning deliberations?

/rant

[Olaf 3314]

9 minutes ago, richard said:

Older house up to the 1950- early 60s had no insulation walls and ceilings, galvanized pipes for water, steel condute to carry wiring that are prone to cracking and stating house fires, borer, lead paint. 

1970-early 1990 still no insulation in walls , asbestos weather boards, plastic piping that's prone to splitting and leak lead paint.

1990-2006 weather tightness with poor products used on the exterior.

2006-today workmanship, and the products they have to use to produce the cheapest house possible. (mass produced houses with copy and paste plans) not the one off houses built for owner/occupier.

This is a very basic overview , I've not gone into structures  like piles, types of timber and design

I formed a similar view when buying in the late 90's.  Here's my list from the time when we went shopping:

- Anything solid (1900-1980's) would need work on insulation.  

- Avoid Villas, no decent regs, frequently built direct on ground.  Great timbers, but often gloomy.  High-ceilings nice, but cost more to heat. (what was I thinking - power was cheap, then!).

- Avoid 90's to new - No soffits, what are they thinking? Dodgy cladding, dropping standards in the building codes will cause issues in future.  (boy was I right).

- Avoid 80's - open plan and low thermal efficiency; declining materials quality.  The cheap Mt St Helens cedar was nice, but will it last another 20 years? (I was wrong, it's lasting well).

- Avoid 70's - frequently dodgy cladding products.  A qualified 'proceed with caution'.

- 50's & 60's - okay, good framing, good cladding. Solid materials, built well. 

- 40's:  a bit gloomy, budget to eliminate concrete tiles (earthquake hazard), possibly butchered in the 60's/70's.  Be prepared to remediate.

- 20's & 30's.  Excellent materials, generally sited for sun.  Reasonable building regs at the time.  Concrete piles. Old enough to have been re-wired, re-plumbed, re-gibbed.  Downside:  re-plumbing likely to have utilised Dux QEST.  Probably bare-timber repainted, eliminating lead paint.

- Pre 1920 - (Villas) avoid unless you're really keen to do a full rebuild, repile, the works.

So we liked the style, bought in our (heavily biased) sweetspot of the NZ Californian Bungalow.  Insulated and re-lined those rooms that hadn't had it done.  All homes require constant maintenance; sadly kiwi homeowners seem to take the same approach to this as they do to their Euro cars!

Today, I'd be looking at 40's to 80's as the sweet spot, and expecting to re-plumb and fully insulate, and double-glaze.

YMMV.

[coop 261]

26 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I have no issue with the theory of CGT, and agree that implementing a very well-considered and carefully constructed one, in Godzone, would be acceptable... particularly with a further simplification of the tax system... such as drop to 20% taxation (as an example), or similar.  The implementation must go hand-in-hand with doing something *useful* with the increased tax haul.  You simply cannot discuss this *stab at CGT* and ignore the politics of why and how; the current proposal and the drivers to do so are plain stupid.  

If I buy two rentals in the next three years, and get them paid off by retirement, I'll be very happy.  I'll have paid tax on my labour to generate the deposits, I'll have paid tax to all of the professions and trades hired to acquire, maintain, and manage these properties and their tenants.  I'll have paid tax on the income.  Sure, tax me some more if I want to sell them to fund my retirement, to ease my sorry old bones burden on the state as I age.  I guess I'll be better off holding them, and living off of the income they'll generate, evil landlord eh?  

Guess I should invest in the NZX.  Except that there's sod-all protection for retail investors in NZ, IMHO.  Errant directors are slapped with a wet bus ticket.  I'll do my equities investing offshore, thanks very much.  And pay taxes here, as a good citizen. 

I cannot get past the arguments offered that "because other countries do it, New Zealand should do it... and piss the gains away".  I'm paraphrasing of course.  Were they all given a reading list with Robin Hood at it's head, before beginning deliberations?

/rant

Then on those rental properties you'll have to pay tax on inflation when you sell.

This may not be the end of the world as they are rentals, but people are kidding themselves if they think the CGT won't creep to the family home. Under the recommendations, if you use your home as part of your (small) business, it will be subject to CGT. A non earning lifestyle block will be subject to CGT. When these owners come to sell in ten years time to buy in the same market the CGT they've just paid on inflation leaves them with less than what they just had. 

The jealous lot who like taking a stab at land lords, and say they want to encourage people to dump their money into the share market and business, are the same ones shouting from the roof tops when business make decisions to increase productivity or profits in the way of laying off workers by shifting off shore, automation, downsizing unproductive floor staff etc. 'greedy share holders' 'greedy land lords', you can't win with those types its the same old broken record. 

 

Is there a housing crisis... There are over 30,000 properties for sale on TM atm. 8,000 for rent. The 'crisis' revolves around un tenantable feral tenants, where no right minded land lord will want in their house. Exacerbated by click bait media.

 

When the TWG pick up on how prices for classic cars, motorbikes, tractors, trucks and heavy machinery has taken off, and still going up in price, you may have to fork out a CGT on you Volvo! Are you on the NZ Volvo FB group? 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by coop

[NZ BMW 368]

There are good people on both sides of politics. But this lot are just the worst bunch of shallow, vacuous phoneys who have no idea what they’re doing. 

It’s a real contrast to the Clark, Key and English premierships and the teams they were able to assemble around them. 

[Jacko 2153]

^ Totally agreed. No matter which way you lean, the current political faces are vapid muppets. 

 

In other news, by chance drove past a place today by fluke, that by chance an agent was at. Deceased estate, another failed auction, nice area, massive garage(s)! and a big sections. Late 80s hardiplank/brick but high end of that style... building inspection is all thats standing in the way. Fingers crossed there are no gremlins hiding. 

 

 

[richard 384]

44 minutes ago, Jacko said:

^ Totally agreed. No matter which way you lean, the current political faces are vapid muppets. 

 

In other news, by chance drove past a place today by fluke, that by chance an agent was at. Deceased estate, another failed auction, nice area, massive garage(s)! and a big sections. Late 80s hardiplank/brick but high end of that style... building inspection is all thats standing in the way. Fingers crossed there are no gremlins hiding. 

 

 

good luck.

[Driftit 2078]

Can't wait to come back to NZ and join this total sh*t show...

From old to new I feel that NZ houses are piles of sh*t compared to the US.
It was -18 outside the other day.  Yet I was warm in every room of the house.  And I didn't even have the bloody heater on.
And it was built in 1915.

[Olaf 3314]

4 hours ago, Driftit said:

Can't wait to come back to NZ and join this total sh*t show...

From old to new I feel that NZ houses are piles of sh*t compared to the US.
It was -18 outside the other day.  Yet I was warm in every room of the house.  And I didn't even have the bloody heater on.
And it was built in 1915.

When are you due back, Dan?  returning to godzone takes a certain amout of cultural recalibration time, though it has its rewards...

 

[Jacko 2153]

Bought me a big ass 2007 total span shed Also on property is a late 80s house.. that needs a lot of work... but check out my shed! No leaks! 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

But... it hasn't rained today Chris ? Nice size workshop though. What area ?

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by B.M.W Ltd

[Jacko 2153]

17 minutes ago, B.M.W Ltd said:

But... it hasn't rained today Chris ? Nice size workshop though. What area ?

 

77m2, so big enough to have some fun in! 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

Where abouts ?

[M3AN 4016]

When are you getting the hoists installed Chris?

I'll be there the following day...

 

[Jacko 2153]

22 minutes ago, M3AN said:

When are you getting the hoists installed Chris?

I'll be there the following day...

 

As soon as I figure out how to get them past the wife. Trust me, first thing I thought: theres enough room for a twin post  

[Olaf 3314]

great news Chris, congratulations!

 

[Olaf 3314]

2 hours ago, Jacko said:

77m2, so big enough to have some fun in! 

there are 3br HOUSES smaller than that! ?

[Jacko 2153]

16 minutes ago, Olaf said:

great news Chris, congratulations!

 

Cheers, she's going to be a lot of work, serious doeruper but solidly built. Wouldve been a slick yuppie house back in late 80s though, going to have to get an E24 to match the decor

[richard 384]

the pools not fenced and empty

[M3AN 4016]

Naa, put crocodiles in it and call it a moat!

 

[Jacko 2153]

1 hour ago, richard said:

the pools not fenced and empty

*skate park. 

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

 

On 3/9/2019 at 4:28 PM, gjm said:

As for tax breaks - that's typically a National carrot, not a Labour one. They trot it out at most elections.

i guess you hadnt arrived here in the 80s, when there were the biggest cuts in NZ, under a Labour govt.