S54 VS @2jz

[Anthony M3 22]

* Dont need " its a bmw shouldn't put jap carp in it" Serious question thanks

Have a 03 E46 M3, Been looking at power upgrade option eg- Superchargers/ turbos.

After reading about superchargers peoples general response is " it was okay" - stage 2.

Regards to rhd turbo kits are rare and hard to find, could custom build a rhd kit but then some say its not worth the money for the power.

Done some research and found a few people that do a 2jz swap, Yes its a toyota motor but for the price and potential power capabilities for the price it seems like an interesting route. Obviously some custom fab would be required in terms of install ( engine mounts etc). But wondering if anyone has done a 2j swap and what there thoughts are.

my plans for the car is to go track orientated as I know it will be peoples first question.

Cheers

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Assuming you're going to redo the suspension to something that can be altered to suit different tracks / conditions would it be easier to start with another E46 and install your desired parts into that? My thinking is that if you're swapping the driveline, suspension and powerplant for aftermarket stuff then it basically stops being an M3 in all but badging & interior spec - which you could remove / alter to accommodate a rollcage. Ok, so some panels are unique but I doubt they make any difference to performance levels

Having said that, onselling the M3 engine and drivetrain would offset the costs of conversion quite considerably.

Steve Murch would be able to give you guidance on costs and options if you chose to stick with the S54 and strap a snail to it. Supercharging seems to be a good option for a modest increase in output for street cars, not so much for big hp.

I would want to see the full costs of a 2jz engine, drivetrain and ECU conversion against turbocharging the S54 before I made to many assumptions. And if you plan on tracking the car regularly there is such a thing as too much power - how many tracks & events around NZ could you really use 600-1000hp at? Not trying to rain on your parade, just genuinely intrigued

[CamB 48]

My 2c would be to make sure you are comparing like for like for $. What I mean is:

- buy 2JZ

- swap 2JZ in

- modify 2JZ to rev (probably only need cams) to make it comparable to an s54, plus whatever else one customarily does to a 2JZ

- I guess you can sell s54 at that point, recovering a decent amount of cost

vs

- modify S54 for boost (at very least lower the compression a bit)

Because the way I look at it, for either engine you will need a roughly equivalent cost for:

- custom exhaust manifold (maybe a bit more room on the 2JZ) and exhaust, intercooler and intake plumbing

- big turbo (I assume you aren't sticking with standard for the 2JZ)

- dealing with tuning

I guess I am trying to say the 2JZ may not be that much cheaper.

(edit - beaten to it by 2 mins but essentially looks like you've had 2 similar answers).

Edited November 15, 2015 by CamB

[Anthony M3 22]

My 2c would be to make sure you are comparing like for like for $. What I mean is:

- buy 2JZ

- swap 2JZ in

- modify 2JZ to rev (probably only need cams) to make it comparable to an s54, plus whatever else one customarily does to a 2JZ

- I guess you can sell s54 at that point, recovering a decent amount of cost

vs

- modify S54 for boost (at very least lower the compression a bit)

Because the way I look at it, for either engine you will need a roughly equivalent cost for:

- custom exhaust manifold (maybe a bit more room on the 2JZ) and exhaust, intercooler and intake plumbing

- big turbo (I assume you aren't sticking with standard for the 2JZ)

- dealing with tuning

I guess I am trying to say the 2JZ may not be that much cheaper.

(edit - beaten to it by 2 mins but essentially looks like you've had 2 similar answers).

Yea good point,

Just looking into itI find it interesting how guys that run HPF kits with like 700rwhp have done the 2j conversion which Im not sure 100% why they would do this but anyhow.

Any in regards to the 2jz it most certainly wouldn't be standard if I did the conversion would want something around the 350rkw mark.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Anthony M3

[Ahmedsinc 414]

My 2c would be to make sure you are comparing like for like for $. What I mean is:

- buy 2JZ

- swap 2JZ in

- modify 2JZ to rev (probably only need cams) to make it comparable to an s54, plus whatever else one customarily does to a 2JZ

- I guess you can sell s54 at that point, recovering a decent amount of cost

vs

- modify S54 for boost (at very least lower the compression a bit)

Because the way I look at it, for either engine you will need a roughly equivalent cost for:

- custom exhaust manifold (maybe a bit more room on the 2JZ) and exhaust, intercooler and intake plumbing

- big turbo (I assume you aren't sticking with standard for the 2JZ)

- dealing with tuning

I guess I am trying to say the 2JZ may not be that much cheaper.

(edit - beaten to it by 2 mins but essentially looks like you've had 2 similar answers).

Probably easier to get higher numbers from the Tooter engine though - have seen 1600+hp and planetary levels of torque on other websites.

[m325i 709]

Why not LS1?

[polley 916]

Would think a turbo s54 would make your 350rwkw quite easily on low boost.

[andrewm 236]

Probably shouldn't put a jap carp in it, fish tank would be pretty heavy would probably negate the gains you were going for.

[zero 1162]

step 1:

Sell M3

step 2:

Buy 318i

step 3:

With money from M3 sale buy decent suspension, engine and box, roll cage, track wheels and tyres.

step 4:

Count the money you saved

[5amchris 45]

Sell me the S54

[CamB 48]

Probably easier to get higher numbers from the Tooter engine though - have seen 1600+hp and planetary levels of torque on other websites.

I think it might go like this (based solely on what you see around the internets):

- 300rwkw - ish. Probably easiest for a basically stock 2JZ

- the next 100kw - can see the s54 coming even

- some point where ridiculous hp levels have already been passed - the 2JZ is much better supported so it would be cheaper* / easier / well trodden

* a very relative term at that point.

What I really meant was that once you go past bolt-ons for a turbo engine and start changing cams and pistons / rods, it probably doesn't cost a lot more to stick with a BMW engine.

[Michael. 2313]

Depends what you want out of the car I guess...

I wouldn't bastardise a genuine M3 personally, as mentioned, buy a well option standard E46 coupe and build it up accordingly with M3 suspension and the big case diff.

A 2JZGTE in VVTi spec would be an excellent power plant for long term reliability.

Quite easily a 500hp / 600nm engine with relative tweaks done, but even the stock 320hp / 450nm would make for a very fast car with excellent tractability.

I'd advise against getting to caught up with excessive rwkw and big numbers came many fall into, it becomes too much of a show off factor and kills the experience driving the car due to excessive traction loss and never being able to effectively use all or most of the power.

[Jibs05 86]

I think in NZ you cant go past a 2j.

[Neal 544]

S54 HPF stage 3. 1300hp bottom end build. Menthol injection

1100 wbhp

End of story

[thorburn 121]

I thought HPF died.
http://www.germanboost.com/content.php?3670-HPF-Back-from-the-dead-Vivid-Racing-takes-over-the-brand-name-Illtech-Auto-Salon-takes-remaining-inventory-What-is-going-on-Horsepower-Freaks-is-back
well sort of

[Herbmiester 923]

Well whatever you do make sure you tell us how. No objections to a 2JZ, awesome motor.

[Neal 544]

I think the twin turbo 750 BHP RHD kit will be hard to get , but lhd kits still around.

Other way is ESS sc kits from 450-650 hp. Car still has hard edged S54 engine note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaQNCR3qXzQ

[Anthony M3 22]

Depends what you want out of the car I guess...

I wouldn't bastardise a genuine M3 personally, as mentioned, buy a well option standard E46 coupe and build it up accordingly with M3 suspension and the big case diff.

A 2JZGTE in VVTi spec would be an excellent power plant for long term reliability.

Quite easily a 500hp / 600nm engine with relative tweaks done, but even the stock 320hp / 450nm would make for a very fast car with excellent tractability.

I'd advise against getting to caught up with excessive rwkw and big numbers came many fall into, it becomes too much of a show off factor and kills the experience driving the car due to excessive traction loss and never being able to effectively use all or most of the power.

The reason as to why I ask is I fell That for the amount of money I have now spent on the m3 and the potential money I would get if I was to sell it is just pointless. It has done 150,000 kms now and would struggle to get 23 from what I see on trademe.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Anthony M3

[Herbmiester 923]

Friend of a friend just bought an NZ new E46 M3 110 kms for 20k.

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Friend of a friend just bought an NZ new E46 M3 110 kms for 20k.

He probably doesn't want to hear that!

[zero 1162]

Maybe work out what you will get if you sold off the m3 parts that are not going to be used, like the m3 suspension, m3 interior, m3 wheels and tyres.

However I suspect you wont get as much as you would selling the m3, and then buying a 318i, plus m3 diff, plus engine and box of your choice.

Also if you scrape a 318i on the track, it wont be as bad as doing the same to a m3.

[Anthony M3 22]

Friend of a friend just bought an NZ new E46 M3 110 kms for 20k.

Exactly ? Haha, worth hardly anything these days.

[M3_Power 636]

N55 : P

[hybrid 1043]

shhhhh nobodys worked that out yet

[Michael. 2313]

2JZ is at least a 20 year old proven lump of Iron and alloy - and with that a ridiculous amount of product support.

As good as N55s are on paper, are they as strong and tough long term? Don't they have plenty of plastic manifold components that need to be ditched to hold decent boost levels?

BMWs plastic / seal track record would be my worry if one was to enjoy a reliable setup.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Michael.