Price of replacement keys found to be unjustified.

[JaseNZ 53]

Just read this and thought to myself good on you for proceeding with this.

This would have quite an impact on all car dealerships here if people were to follow this route for replacement keys. I know I was quoted $600 to replace mine if it ever got lost.

They must be making a massive margin on these and this is the first time its been queried and exposed.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90293847/raging-businessman-takes-toyota-to-tribunal-over-525-key

 

 

 

[Gabe79 410]

11 minutes ago, presso said:

Just read this and thought to myself good on you for proceeding with this.

This would have quite an impact on all car dealerships here if people were to follow this route for replacement keys. I know I was quoted $600 to replace mine if it ever got lost.

They must be making a massive margin on these and this is the first time its been queried and exposed.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90293847/raging-businessman-takes-toyota-to-tribunal-over-525-key

 

 

 

It is amusing to me that Toyota charges more than twice what BMW charges for a key fob with remote.

[aja540i 1906]

2 hours ago, Gabe79 said:

It is amusing to me that Toyota charges more than twice what BMW charges for a key fob with remote.

Its because they are so reliable, right?

[Gabe79 410]

50 minutes ago, aja540i said:

Its because they are so reliable, right?

I must point out that my Toyota has needed exactly nothing done to it other than oil changes in years of ownership. I uh... cannot say the same for my BMW, although I haven't owned it for very long as yet.

[Allanw 1071]

Pretty sure I paid about $300 for a key for the E39, from Milland a few years back. It s a proper one with induction charging etc too.

 

After Dads Toyota (18 years ago!) being shitty, and the ass-raping parts prices, he brought his E30 and enjoyed the better drive, better reliability and cheaper parts ;-)

 

I had a Daihatsu Mira, and Toyota wanted $110 PER rear drum slave cylinder! I'm proud to say I've never owned a Toyota, and am fairly sure I won't...

 

... unless they invent some type of anti-suicide interior covering that absorbs through your skin and numbs your senses.

[KwS 2425]

The problem is, there is no point getting shitty at the dealer, i know for Merc keys we make sweet f**k all on them, so it must be the overlords that make all the money. What some people also dont understand is that included in the price of some keys (like Mitsubishi keys) is the cutting and coding of that key, to make it work with the car. Half the cost of mitsi keys in generally that labour.

$700-800 for some of the merc keys is f**king crazy though.

[Gabe79 410]

2 minutes ago, KwS said:

The problem is, there is no point getting shitty at the dealer, i know for Merc keys we make sweet f**k all on them, so it must be the overlords that make all the money. What some people also dont understand is that included in the price of some keys (like Mitsubishi keys) is the cutting and coding of that key, to make it work with the car. Half the cost of mitsi keys in generally that labour.

$700-800 for some of the merc keys is f**king crazy though.

cutting and coding cost very little. If you have to buy the equipment as a private individual to do your own coding it'll cost you $60. Cutting costs ~$55. The difference is just the cost of a key fob, in the case of an e39 you can pay as low as $15 delivered. Sure an oem key might be better quality but the point remain these don't cost all that much to make and it was what the disputes tribunal found as well. 

[KwS 2425]

$55 + half hours labour to code.... your point is moot, as that totals half the total cost of the key. If you want it done properly, by a major workshop, then be prepared to pay the costs associated with that. If you dont like it, sure, buy the equipment yourself but when it does wrong dont expect the dealer to give a sh*t.

Some keys could be cheaper, but you need to be realistic about some things. Merc keys are cut and programmed overseas and then DHL airfreighted to NZ. That isnt free.

We see heaps of knockoff keys, and the quality is crap, not to mention the amount of customers coming to us after getting a knockoff key cut and then finding it doesnt have an immobilizer chip in the key at all.

People are such whingy little bitches these days.

[NZ BMW 368]

Stories like this always make me uneasy. Who's business is it what the margin is on the key? 

Trying to control what people can and can't charge or earn off a product... 

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by NZ BMW

[Palazzo 477]

2 hours ago, NZ BMW said:

Stories like this always make me uneasy. Who's business is it what the margin is on the key? 

Trying to control what people can and can't charge or earn off a product... 

 

So you'd be comfortable with a key at say, $7,500+ GST?

[NZ BMW 368]

9 hours ago, Palazzo said:

So you'd be comfortable with a key at say, $7,500+ GST?

I think that's a pretty extreme example.

There are lots of things I'm not comfortable with the pricing around. I either choose not to buy them or find alternatives.  

I guess my point is that there is more than one source for these things, if you don't want to pay the asking price at the dealership you can always ask for a discount or go elsewhere. 

[Palazzo 477]

Of course it's extreme.

But I think a 2-300% mark up on the retail price of an item overseas is extreme too and that's commonplace.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

What nobody is factoring into the equation, including the people that made the decision, is the cost of storing and maintaining all the information required for the key. Plus all the controls you have to have in place around people accessing the information.

I don't mean the cost of the physical storage to hold the data, that is relatively cheap these days. More the processes and steps that have to be followed and the time and cost it all takes. It's always easy for these bodies to say "you must keep records" "you must provide information" "you must have spare parts" but they have no clue about the costs to the business to make these things happen.

[TermiPeteNZ 1318]

I just ordered a new key for my E60 M5 From Winger (formerly Jeff Gray) BMW today - $445 from Germany and coded to the vehicle. More than I like to pay for what is quite a basic thing - but not as bad as some other brands/dealers by the looks of things.

 

[Olaf 3317]

7 hours ago, TermiPeteNZ said:

I just ordered a new key for my E60 M5 From Winger (formerly Jeff Gray) BMW today - $445 from Germany and coded to the vehicle. More than I like to pay for what is quite a basic thing - but not as bad as some other brands/dealers by the looks of things.

 

that's less than the key for my e46... as it's the '02 model with bigger fob and the big red nipple on the mirror, they (well, JG BMW as they were) sting about $560 for those.  I was thinking "shoulda got an '04 with the diamond key!", but whaddya do.  You can go to the dealer and order a key for your fifteen year old car.  Ever tried that with a run-of-the-mill brand?

ISTR Milland do a good price on keys.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Olaf
JG BMW

[allan 295]

Surely all that info is gather up and kept by the factory when the orders for the vehicles are finalized and the cars are being assembled in the factory. A vin number a couple of clicks on a key board and the info would be available surely ( typical German efficiency) or not.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

It's only simple if you build a robust system and ensure it is used correctly.

Put in context, 2 million cars built in 2016 alone, all with seperate codes, multiple differnent types of key - 5 & 7 Series now comes with four keys, 1 valet, 2 main remote, plus a display key. Go back how many years, and how many keys? Oh it was so easy in the good old E30 days!

All electronic keys have seperate rolling codes to synch with the car, not just the cutting profile for the key slot, so how many of seperate pieces of information are we up to now..? How do you firstly create all the information required to produce the parts and code them and get them to the factory onto the right car and then stored again afterwards, in a format that can be interrogated and links all the seperate parts of the jigsaw together?

Not a huge task in terms of data storage capacity, but again it is the processes around it that take the time and effort to build and maintain. When I get some time I will try and pull the information I had from Ford of Europe on the cost analysis of data management - for those that have trouble sleeping.

 

 

[Olaf 3317]

a good point well made, Jon.  Indeed, dealerships pushing other marques here lose interest in anything 15 years old, and their datasets are often not kept up to date.

My mate was collecting Honda parts for an NZ-new '97 Civic recently... and even Honda parts guy was "there's three types for this car, here's one - if it doesn't fit bring it back".  It didn't fit, so the brake job took an extra day.

[Olaf 3317]

PS - I'd be interested in the Ford Europe cost analysis of data management.

[allan 295]

"there's three types for this car", Richard Honda are notorious for that and no doubt other car manufactures also.

Don't buy it their might be a bit of dicking around with getting the keys cut sorted for the vehicle but not to the cost some on here are describing sounds like the price dripping going on with airlines flights

Own experience two new diamond shaped uncut keys $100, key cutting both $45. Send keys and EWS away to get info transferred onto new keys cost postage only as the kind person wouldn't accept any thing for it was a simple info transfer.

[Blackie 510]

Well done that man. 

This line from the tribunal says it all really.

He said Toyota's claim was misleading. "It did not disclose that a significant portion of the price charged is a healthy margin added by Armstrongs."

[gjm 3258]

I saw a post on Farcebook earlier where someone had been quoted $60 to have a new key cut for his BMW - he had the chip, but had broken the key stem out of the plastic fob.

He was hoping someone could suggest somewhere cheaper.  

[Gabe79 410]

9 minutes ago, gjm said:

I saw a post on Farcebook earlier where someone had been quoted $60 to have a new key cut for his BMW - he had the chip, but had broken the key stem out of the plastic fob.

He was hoping someone could suggest somewhere cheaper.  

$60 is cheap. Armstrong in Red Beach asked for $75 from me to cut my key.

 

EDIT: Mine is the HU58 blade, with the notch in the middle and 4 cuts needed. Not the HU92, flat double-side circular cut.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Gabe79

[hotwire 352]

14 minutes ago, Gabe79 said:

$60 is cheap. Armstrong in Red Beach asked for $75 from me to cut my key.

 

EDIT: Mine is the HU58 blade, with the notch in the middle and 4 cuts needed. Not the HU92, flat double-side circular cut.

Ahh the HU58 lock as in my car that i can't bloody pick. HU92 relatively easily picked. Funny how the newer BMW's locks are easier to pick than the old ones. Can't say the same for VAG cars though.

[Gabe79 410]

I ended up buying a key programmer and teaching myself how to do it because I only had one key for the car and didn't want to end up in the situation where I couldn't get in! I have to say, the Toyota example where Armstrong takes in the lion's share of the cost is true here too. AK90+: $50 (note obviously this is multi-use!), blank HU58 diamond key with internals, including transponder: $15, Armstrong key cut service: $75. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Gabe79