M-cars, in order of merit.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2963]

E30 M3 was built in the same factory as other E30s, but not on the same production line. The workers that built the M3 were carefully selected from amongst the factory staff to be the best. When they couldn't keep up with demand they had other workers make their coffee and bring it to them on the production line, so they could keep going and not have to stop for a break!!

Quite right Josh, there were differences between the road car and race cars in the suspension department (greater variation as the years went on - mainly due to the development of the race set-ups), but there are also big differences between any other E30 and the M3 suspension. Changes were allowed between the production vehicles and race vehicles in certain areas but they had to be pretty much the same in others - body shape / size, engine configuration etc. Hence the need for an M3 road car to base the race vehicles on, although BMW really did it the other way around - working out what they needed in the race car, and then building a production version that had what they needed.

And there is still a huge difference between an "M" and a car with TradeMe M badges!!!

[Driftit 2093]

So it's entirely likely that they're ranking the US E36 M. Yuck.

Yip. With that awsome M50B30 that they renamed. No wonder S50/52's are so expensive over there.

[Phil-540i 166]

A 740i is a slower, uglier, heavier, wider, longer and worse handling version of a 540i.... also there's never been an ///M 7 series

Quote of the week.........??!!

Found a 7 series M for ya..........http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-675484649.htm This ones really 'special', as its been to the Schnitzer factory too...

[C-130 Hercules 571]

E30 M3 was built in the same factory as other E30s, but not on the same production line.

Interesting. I thought they came off the same line. Thought to have seen a picture of an m3 followed by a standard e30 somewhere. Didn't know they had a special crew working on them either.

[ashmill 68]

E34M5

E30M3

E46M3 CSL

E39M5

[bmwwgn 14]

A Boxing Day discussion?

Not my list... Found it online. Not sure where the idea of a M6 came from - as far as I know there was only ever the M635CSi. Still...

1. M1

2. E28 M5

3. E30 M3

4. E24 M6/M635CSi

5. E39 M5

6. E46 M3

7. Z3 M Coupe

8. The M8 Prototype locked away in a vault because it was too insane for humans to actually drive (or the accountants didn't like it)

9. E34 M5

10. 1 Series M Coupe

11. E36 M3

12. E61 M5

13. E92 M3

14.-87. All others

Take a deep breath... And, discuss.

E31 850CSi is a true M-car with 'WBS' VIN.

E24 M6 was the US/Japan version of the M635CSi.

I really miss my E28 M5 - such a fun car to drive.

[cleanish_e46 212]

This seems like something to tackle on the next slow workday.

Would any AC Schnitzer, Alpina or Hartge cars make their way into anyone's lists?

[cleanish_e46 212]

So it has been slow today, and I like lists...

 

M:

E30 M3

E46 M3 CSL

E26 M1

E28 M5

E39 M5

E36 M3

E12 M535i

E24 M635CSi

E34 M5

 

AC Schnitzer:

Not for me.

 

Alpina (some great pre-M era cars):

1600-2 Alpina

Alpina A4S (2002)

Alpina B7S Turbo (E12)

Alpina C1 2.3 (E21)

Alpina B3 2.7 Touring (E30)

1802 Alpina

Alpina B10 V8 S (E39)

Alpina B10 3.0 Touring (E34)

 

Hartge:

H35-24 (E30)

335i (E21)

Hartge M5 (E28)

H6SP (E24)

3.5 M3 Evo (E36)

H5S (E34)

 

Combined (one model code):

BMW E30 M3

BMW E46 M3 CSL

Alpina 1600-2 

Alpina A4S (2002)

Hartge 335i (E21)

Alpina B7S Turbo (E12)

Hartge M5 (E28)

Hartge 3.5 M3 Evo (E36)

Hartge H5S (E34)

BMW E26 M1

Hartge H6SP (E24)

Alpina B10 V8 S (E39)

 

... or something like that. 

[Jacko 2158]

E90 320i M #1

Edited February 26 by Jacko

[Neal 546]

G8X CSL #1

F90 M5 competition #2

F80 M3 #3 

Any one of these can can be short shitfted at 3500 -4000 rpm and deal to the majority of the listed so far. And BMW finally have sorted braking performance with these models.
 

[KwS 2429]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

G8X CSL #1

F90 M5 competition #2

F80 M3 #3 

Any one of these can can be short shitfted at 3500 -4000 rpm and deal to the majority of the listed so far. And BMW finally have sorted braking performance with these models.
 

Sure, they would waste most of the list, but are they really "drivers cars" when it's electronic gizmos doing all the work? Give me an analogue car anyday. 

[Neal 546]

26 minutes ago, KwS said:

Sure, they would waste most of the list, but are they really "drivers cars" when it's electronic gizmos doing all the work? Give me an analogue car anyday. 

Lol yeah , but BMW haven’t made an analogue car since the 2002 ti.

Think my old e46 m3 on that list had something like 15 ecus. Even the throttle bodies were fly by wire, DSC between right foot and rear wheels, independent wheel braking , smg had various levels of shift speeds levels etc, three stage butt warmers etc. I think BMW have been slowly fooling M car owners into thinking they are analogue cars 😏

If anything the newer cars enhance the user experience, total customisable damper , steering , engine aggressiveness and gear change settings , brave mode ( all safeties off ) and MDM mode which we all know the D is for drift. Better seats, stiffer chassis etc.

Quite a handful to drive compared those older listing. Which is the real drivers car ?
 

 

 

 

 

[m325i 711]

13 hours ago, KwS said:

Sure, they would waste most of the list, but are they really "drivers cars" when it's electronic gizmos doing all the work? Give me an analogue car anyday. 

I'd argue you have to be a way better driver to handle an F80 than an e30. The F series M cars are so lairy. 

A lot of pros and cons to each. And I think depends on your use case. These cars came out as daily 'do it all' cars. And have aged into weekend special cars.  I haven't driven every M car, (no m5, no g80 etc.). I am imagining what some are like based on driving other variants.  

Weekend

1. M2 CS
2. M3 CSL
3. M3 E30 Evo

Daily

1. M3 G81
2. F80 ZCP
3. E39 M5

 

[Bruski 35]

On 3/12/2024 at 8:25 PM, Neal said:

Lol yeah , but BMW haven’t made an analogue car since the 2002 ti.

Think my old e46 m3 on that list had something like 15 ecus. Even the throttle bodies were fly by wire, DSC between right foot and rear wheels, independent wheel braking , smg had various levels of shift speeds levels etc, three stage butt warmers etc. I think BMW have been slowly fooling M car owners into thinking they are analogue cars 😏

If anything the newer cars enhance the user experience, total customisable damper , steering , engine aggressiveness and gear change settings , brave mode ( all safeties off ) and MDM mode which we all know the D is for drift. Better seats, stiffer chassis etc.

Quite a handful to drive compared those older listing. Which is the real drivers car ?
 

 

 

 

 

There is also a strong case for older cars that benefit from upgraded performance parts that were not widely available or were not fitted to the factory edition such that a modern equipped older car will arguably be a much 'better' drivers car than when it left the factory.  Bigger, newer brakes for starters.  MUCH better tyres!

[Neal 546]

But equally similar with Turbo gen models

F80 with 425hp stated, but dynos at 460 -470

Stage 1 to 500hp , 600 nm

stage 2 to 625hp 680nm 

single turbo build to 1000hp

Tyres to 295 / 305 mm respectfully 

Already has high end cooling 

Carbon ceramic brakes if not optioned

Underbody aero already

Extensive chassis / subframe bracing 

F90 , mods to 900 hp

Carbon ceramic brakes etc

 

 

Edited March 16 by Neal

[arktis 59]

E39 M5 (by far)

E30 M3

E46 M3

E92 M3

E60 M5

Other than that who cares 😁 in my opinion E60 are when BMW's stopped being decent, and even then it's only because I have a soft spot for V8's (hence E92 M3 inclusion).

[Karter16 416]

E46 M3
E30 M3
E39 M5
F87 M2CS

The F87 M2CS (S55) is the only non-E chassis I'm prepared to put on this list. Not a fan of more modern BMWs and their latest lineup looks like each one was designed by a different AI.

Also, I discovered last week that the headlining is going in my E46 and as a result all BMWs are the worst.

[Neal 546]

2 hours ago, Karter16 said:

Also, I discovered last week that the headlining is going in my E46 and as a result all BMWs are the worst.

That’s quite good for a 20 y/o. No doubt the recent heat and humidity hasn’t helped.

Edited March 16 by Neal

[Karter16 416]

4 minutes ago, Neal said:

That’s quite good for a 20 y/o. No doubt the recent heat and humidity hasn’t helped.

yeah I knew it was going to happen at some point - I had to do my 318 back in the day and that was only about 8 years old when it went!

[M3AN 4016]

On 3/12/2024 at 8:25 PM, Neal said:

Lol yeah , but BMW haven’t made an analogue car since the 2002 ti.

...

Which is the real drivers car ?

To be fair, most of those e46 'deficiencies' you mention aren't present on the e36 equivalent.

I have a vested interest, I don't profess the following to be objective...

I think the e36 M3 deserves just as much credit, if not more, than the e46 equivalent, it was the e36 after all that heralded in 15+ years of ridiculously successful chassis and engine architecture. The e36 M3 was revolutionary, the e46 M3 was simply, and certainly beautifully, evolutionary.

The e36 M3 was the last truly analogue sports car BMW ever made, and a remarkable one at that, it deserves a top 5 position for sure.