The end of entry level RWD BMW's?

[BlackrazorNZ 83]

I've been following with interest the upcoming platform developments for the 1 and 2 series.

In particular, it seems that BMW is determined to completely migrate away from the RWD platform for its entry level vehicles (the 1, 2, X1 and X2) series, in most cases by migrating the the FAAR platform that it shares with Mini and other sub brands.

The 2 Gran Tourer is already on the FAAR platform, but it appears that moving forward all 1/2/X1/X2 series cars will be either FWD or AWD, with transverse mounted engines, and front bias AWD (max 50% torque to the rear). Logic being it allows them to have a lower transmission tunnel which means more cabin and boot space, which apparently most drivers care about more than RWD driving dynamics.

I already knew that the 1 series was moving to FAAR, but of interest it seems that the 2 series will move to FAAR almost in entirety as well, with the exception of the M2. For example, the upcoming 2 Gran Coupe will be FWD or AWD, not RWD, despite being the size of a 3 series from a few years ago.

Obviously BMW think this is the future, but I'll be sad to see the end of RWD driving dynamics at the entry price point. 3's and above will retain it, but as someone who prefers smaller cars, looks like BMW will be joining Audi, Merc, VW and others in producing transverse, AWD, small engined hatches and compact sedans

 

 

 

[BlackrazorNZ 83]

What a change from their marketing of only a few years back!

[Jacko 2154]

Shows just how much of a brands identity is based on their core values, and how much is actually based on moving product. "The ultimate driving machine".. balls. 

Ferrari SUV coming soon. 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Most of it is accurate, but you know what they say about believing what you read on the internet..

Not really related to cabin and boot space, but emissions reductions and manufacturing costs. Latest industry predictions are that a number of major manufacturers will either fold or have to merge due to the level of costs and resources required to meet the next round of emissions targets. The industry is increasingly being driven by government legislation rather than customer demands unfortunately.

Take one for a drive, and without any prejudice, see if you can tell which end is providing the grunt.

[Driftit 2078]

Eh I don't have any interest in these models of BMW anyway.  I would never buy one new.

I guess we will just hang onto the ones we like.  Hell the E46 is seeing a huge bump here in the US at the moment.  Especially the M's and ZHP's.

[Olaf 3317]

4 minutes ago, Driftit said:

I guess we will just hang onto the ones we like.  Hell the E46 is seeing a huge bump here in the US at the moment.  Especially the M's and ZHP's.

you might find you make some money on your coupe when you leave, eh?  

I guess you're on the tail-end of your time there, starting to make plans for what's going into your sea freight etc.  I still have a ladder and jumper leads I bought in similar circumstances... ?  Happy shopping!

[kiwi535 538]

ladder???

[Driftit 2078]

18 hours ago, Olaf said:

you might find you make some money on your coupe when you leave, eh?  

I guess you're on the tail-end of your time there, starting to make plans for what's going into your sea freight etc.  I still have a ladder and jumper leads I bought in similar circumstances... ?  Happy shopping!

Less than a month to go.  Selling a car here can be hard work.  I'm glad I am leaving my US phone number behind.  The amount of Robocalls and spam txt's you get is just insane.

I will probably get what I paid for the car I think.  With all the maintenance done.

[Contrails 317]

Talking of US prices, the E38 M sports are commanding some good coin.  Saw one sell on BAT for 14k USD.

[Driftit 2078]

7 hours ago, Contrails said:

Talking of US prices, the E38 M sports are commanding some good coin.  Saw one sell on BAT for 14k USD.

Most of them sell for $4K or less.  Even in good condition.

I'm sure BAT are pumping up some of these sales.  There is some real crap selling for big bucks on there.

[Gaz 1060]

On 5/3/2019 at 1:28 PM, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

 

Take one for a drive, and without any prejudice, see if you can tell which end is providing the grunt.

Took a 225i Active Terror for a drive and aside from the occasional torque steer, they are surprisingly very well balanced and quite surprised how well it drove

[NZ BMW 368]

These cars are designed to be city cars. FWD will not be noticed by most people who buy and drive them. Makes sense.

[Contrails 317]

14 hours ago, Driftit said:

Most of them sell for $4K or less.  Even in good condition.

I'm sure BAT are pumping up some of these sales.  There is some real crap selling for big bucks on there.

That's interesting Dan. You are the 2nd person to say the same thing about BAT. 

I been watching E30 M3 prices on there too. 

Although Australian E30 M3 prices are starting to become cheaper than NZ. 

[Michael. 2313]

I don't really think it's an issue... most people that buy these wouldn't even know what rwd or fwd is.

For the people that value rwd that is what the M cars or top non M cars are for (Eg M3)

Makes perfect sense if BMW is to make a newer generation product cheaper to compete with the global market. 

[Eagle 1662]

Yep the days of BMW making whatever they wanted or did want to make are long dead. It looks like other modern fwd turd on the road so id say they know what they are doing.

[Michael. 2313]

At least Grandma will love the 2020 Honda Jazz! 

[KwS 2425]

I'd rock it, as long as it's honda reliable and not BMW reliable

[GorGasm 563]

Damn right.  I have even been toying with the idea of a new Civic Type R.  They look like super fun to drive.

 

I also don't so much care about the 1/2 series being FWD.  It suits their purpose anyway.  Is Ultimate Driving Machine still part of BMWs marketing anyway?

Edited May 6, 2019 by GorGasm

[Driftit 2078]

16 hours ago, GorGasm said:

Damn right.  I have even been toying with the idea of a new Civic Type R.  They look like super fun to drive.

 

I also don't so much care about the 1/2 series being FWD.  It suits their purpose anyway.  Is Ultimate Driving Machine still part of BMWs marketing anyway?

Very mediocre cheap feeling car.  You won't be impressed by it.

[KwS 2425]

Reviewers were certainly impressed with how they drive though, and isn't that what matters?

It's not a luxury car, and never pretended to be. 

[GorGasm 563]

Indeed.  And to be honest my E60 and F10 don't feel very expensive anyway.  In fact my 130i feels most like a "BMW" in build and quality to me.

 

[qube 3570]

plenty of good stories about the M140i being the last of the true hot hatch in RWD.

[Driftit 2078]

5 hours ago, GorGasm said:

Indeed.  And to be honest my E60 and F10 don't feel very expensive anyway.  In fact my 130i feels most like a "BMW" in build and quality to me.

 

I can't get past all the fake plastic panels and what seems like 416 different angles all over the car.

I hardly see them on my travels.  Gives me the feeling i'm not the only one who thinks they look cheap and nasty.

Unless you were going to punish it on the track I would rather a Magane.

[KwS 2425]

Honda reliability > Renault reliability. 

Honda also knows how too make damn good fwd cars. 

Anyway, potato tomato, if it's not what you want, fair enough.

The point is that not all fwd/AWD cars are bad, especially for the daily A-B commuter, which is what the majority of cars sold are. Drive line is insignificant to most. 

[BlackrazorNZ 83]

7 minutes ago, KwS said:

The point is that not all fwd/AWD cars are bad, especially for the daily A-B commuter, which is what the majority of cars sold are. Drive line is insignificant to most. 

To be fair, I don't think those who are fans of these existing BMW lines are suggesting that the new ranges will be 'bad cars', at all. I think that what they are lamenting is that BMW is giving up its uniqueness in an effort to appeal to the homogenous mass-market which is already exceedingly well served.

If you want a 1.5-2.0L, turbocharged, transverse mounted engine driving either a front axle or a front/rear via a non-fulltime AWD setup, there are literally dozens of those on the market, often from brands who have them down to a fine art. But there was only one rear-wheel-drive, longitudinally mounted option in the entire small car market, and it's being killed off.

Which kinda leaves those who liked it feeling like they're watching their favourite food joint being bowled to build yet another fast food burger chainstore.

Edited May 7, 2019 by BlackrazorNZ