TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted September 16, 2019 35 minutes ago, GorGasm said: CEL on an M5 is never cheap Guess we'll see! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aja540i 1906 Report post Posted September 16, 2019 8 hours ago, GorGasm said: CEL on an M5 is never cheap It's all relative, it could be something that's cheap, for an M5! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/16/2019 at 10:16 PM, TermiPeteNZ said: Guess we'll see! M5 update Driving in to Auto38 I got a loss of tyre pressure warning - just for fun Pressures looked fine - Jon reinitialized the tyre pressure monitor and we'll see how it goes. Has happened once before. He found gasket leaks in the S85's secondary electrical scavenge pumps that help with oil supply when cornering hard. Also observed that rear tyres are about had it so I'll be replacing those this coming week. Expect to get Michelin Pilot Sport 4s - reading overseas reviews they come out well. The Falkens were on it when I got it and have lasted around 14000KMs. Other stuff On another note, pondering picking up a F30 335i Luxury model as new daily driver... bit of a modern car by my standards! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olaf 3339 Report post Posted September 20, 2019 14k kms on those rears is pretty good going, given the demands of their job getting that awesome power to the pavement! 335i? Do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aja540i 1906 Report post Posted September 20, 2019 The Tyre warning system uses the abs to detect differences in wheel speeds and compares to steering angle sensor, so a long but gentle corner can set it off, mine has done it a few times. I have just put PS 4ss on the front to go with the rears, can't fault them so far... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Righto - have the M5 back... Check and set tyre pressures & reset tyre monitor Remove S85 auxiliary oil pump & replace profile gasket & clean down oil leaks Remedy power steering leak with replacement clamp Rescanned recurring fault code with lambda bank 2 - 'O2 sensor out of limit' & intermittent lean code comes up once at around 800RPM and then runs fine. Vanos codes not coming up again and it all looks OK Battery was a bit had it so new one has gone in. Next thing is ... New Michelin Pilot Sport 4s going on the rear this Thursday. Extremely good price from Hyperdrive.co.nz. Then back to Auto 38 for oil change oil analysis Maybe clean throttle bodies to see if it helps with fault code And in other news... Picking up the F30 335i Luxury Edition tomorrow... took it for a test drive on Sunday evening and was most impressed - amazingly modern in every way compared to my other vehicles and the twin turbo six is quite something. Edited September 24, 2019 by TermiPeteNZ 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle 1670 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 I don't think ive even dreamt of owning 4 BMW's. At this point you may as well buy 5 so you can drive a different one to work each day. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, Eagle said: I don't think ive even dreamt of owning 4 BMW's. At this point you may as well buy 5 so you can drive a different one to work each day. Well the plan IS to replace one of the existing vehicles - either the E46 or my wife's Mazda... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
balancerider 770 Report post Posted December 8, 2019 On 9/24/2019 at 3:49 AM, TermiPeteNZ said: Righto - have the M5 back... Check and set tyre pressures & reset tyre monitor Remove S85 auxiliary oil pump & replace profile gasket & clean down oil leaks Remedy power steering leak with replacement clamp Rescanned recurring fault code with lambda bank 2 - 'O2 sensor out of limit' & intermittent lean code comes up once at around 800RPM and then runs fine. Vanos codes not coming up again and it all looks OK Battery was a bit had it so new one has gone in. Next thing is ... New Michelin Pilot Sport 4s going on the rear this Thursday. Extremely good price from Hyperdrive.co.nz. Then back to Auto 38 for oil change oil analysis Maybe clean throttle bodies to see if it helps with fault code And in other news... Picking up the F30 335i Luxury Edition tomorrow... took it for a test drive on Sunday evening and was most impressed - amazingly modern in every way compared to my other vehicles and the twin turbo six is quite something. Be interested in a review of this when you have time Pete. How does it go on the commute? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Well ... Happy New Year all! M5 is booked in at Auto38 for a coolant leak... cropped up after taking it to the recent Kapiti coast Cars & Coffee. Coolant on the drive and then coolant in the garage. Not a lot though fortunately. Other jobs.. Still have 2 x windscreen chips to sort - 1 on the E46 and one on the F30 Am going to restore the headlights on the X5 - purchased a Rain-X kit for doing this. They've been done twice - once by Tidy Car (lasted a couple of years maybe) and then a quick job by Laurenson (which lasted a few months if that). Looking to have another brake caliper rebuilt on my wife's Mazda too .. the smell of hot metal and the alloy wheel is hot to the touch. Edited January 4, 2020 by TermiPeteNZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) On 12/9/2019 at 3:10 AM, balancerider said: Be interested in a review of this when you have time Pete. How does it go on the commute? Hey @balancerider Well - here are my observations... great daily driver - although the start/stop engine behaviour is quite unsettling at first, and the not putting the key in the ignition is also a new thing for me average fuel consumption on mostly urban driving is ~11.2l/100KM - so lower than all the others, as you'd hope for a much more modern vehicle! It is nice having all the modern tech - BT audio and phone are the most useful - but not sure if anything else really matters Black paint is a pain ? the modern turbo six sounds beautiful and the torque is epic - very different to all the other NA vehicles. On the digital sport gauges it is reporting 240KW against a claimed 225KW - but who knows if this is correct... steering is nice and light but firms up in sport mode flies very well along country roads and handles great despite not being a Motorsport model - was great on the recent Napier/Hastings trip the blindspot detection doesn't seem to work at all - will get that checked when it goes in for a service at Winger After spending a lot of time driving this vehicle, it's safe to say that something like this (especially a touring) is quite conceivably all the BMW you ever need - super nice to be in, goes like the clappers with buckets of instant power - and handles well, while being reasonable on fuel. That said, I enjoy all the different driving experiences with the vehicles we have, and the V10 M5 still makes me smile the most. Driving the 335i has put a F80 M3 somewhere in my future plans... turbo 6 3-series = a damned good thing! Edited January 6, 2020 by TermiPeteNZ Grrr typos 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
balancerider 770 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 Very nice review thanks @TermiPeteNZ. I agree with a lot of your points. I've turned stop/start off in mine, the torque is just awesome (mine's a diesel) and I honestly don't think I'd need more performance. I'd have loved a 340i touring (mainly for the sound and quicker to warm up) but it wasn't worth an extra 20k! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZ BMW 368 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 8 hours ago, balancerider said: Very nice review thanks @TermiPeteNZ. I agree with a lot of your points. I've turned stop/start off in mine, the torque is just awesome (mine's a diesel) and I honestly don't think I'd need more performance. I'd have loved a 340i touring (mainly for the sound and quicker to warm up) but it wasn't worth an extra 20k! I went with the sedan because I couldn’t find a touring that a) was reasonably priced for diesel and b) came without X-Drive which I didn’t want. Although on a recent trip to Bunnings I did miss the extra cargo space and thought I should have not been so cheap. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 Took the M5 in to Auto38 today ... now on ~146KMs I've been getting a warning related to tyre pressure loss pretty much every time i take the car out - check pressures, they seem OK and reset pressures via iDrive - and off we go. Jon identified a valve leak on the right rear and has sorted this. It failed the WoF due to 2 things... both of which are annoying and unexpected expenses but I can't really argue either point the passenger wing mirror is defective... chromatic mirror (option S430A, LCD) has failed and the LCD is draining. Doesn't appear to be any way of fixing these... and options are buy new M5 heated chromatic mirror glass - Winger - ~$1800!, Schmiedmann ~$900ish buy new M5 heated non-chromatic mirror glass via Winger for $500, Schmiedmann ~$350ish so I'm going for the $500 Winger option, taking advantage of the BMW Car Club parts discount. The chromatic/auto-dip isn't really that important IMHO. despite passing many warrants previously, the windows were identified as being tinted at twice the legal level (70%!). I thought they were factory tinted but this is not the case. So this means getting the existing tints removed (carefully!) and applying new ones at 35%. I've contacted Window Magic here in Wellington who come highly recommended... we'll see what this costs. Hopefully it isn't too bad as I'd like to get tints on the F30 too... Jon is sourcing a part to remedy the small coolant leak - glad there weren't any issues when I drove it in this morning We're pricing a replacement left fuel sender as i would like to get the annoying fuel gauge issue sorted. When I drive off it shows half a tank, and then the fuel increases to reflect the actual fuel level. The right sender has already been done back in 2018. Jon has done an oil change and I'd asked him to check for metal particles - and yes there is some visible. At this point I need to decided if I bother with an oil analysis, or put the money I'd spend on this towards just getting the rod bearings done as a preventative measure, just as @aja540i did with his E61 M5 Touring (such an awesome vehicle!) Turner Motorsport and ECSTuning recommend bearing replacement at 60-80,000 miles On the Facebook M5 owners' group - the consensus seems to be 'get it done' Now my issue is finding who can or will do it for me in Welly! Any advice here? Seeing if Jon is willing to tackle it - and will ask Mike Page European and Winger too. Feels like an expensive time for me, but for me the M5 is a special car and I can't see what I'd replace it with. ? 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treone 649 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 20 hours ago, TermiPeteNZ said: despite passing many warrants previously, the windows were identified as being tinted at twice the legal level (70%!). I thought they were factory tinted but this is not the case. So this means getting the existing tints removed (carefully!) and applying new ones at 35%. I've contacted Window Magic here in Wellington who come highly recommended... we'll see what this costs. Feels like an expensive time for me, but for me the M5 is a special car and I can't see what I'd replace it with. Bugger about the tints @TermiPeteNZ ?. I thought they were factory too. Pretty crazy that after many years of attaining WoF's it hasn't been an issue until now. I've used Window Magic a couple of times to do previous BMW's - Greg is very good at what he does (not just cos he's got a cool name haha). In fact, reminds me I need to book in to get mine done. I think rod bearings is probably a good investment, as I agree, the E60 M5 is a special car ?. Good luck mate, it will all work out! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 Update... Tints Tints for F30 = $480 ; tints for E60 = $460 ; removal of old tints approx $100. May take the F30 in to get sorted soon. Takes 2 hours to do a car. Mazda (you don't care but I do) Having to get all 3 remaining brake calipers rebuilt on the wife's Mazda - LF was done last time, now RR seized and Driscolls advised that RF was not working properly either. So if doing 2, better do three as brakes kind of matter from a safety perspective... M5 Enquired about bearing bearing replacement for the M5 to Winger, Mike Page up the coast and BM Workshop in Akld. Both Mike and BM Workshop have actually worked on the car in the past. Winger are looking into it Mike very politely and sympathetically declined, and recommended Guido at BM Workshop in Botany BM Workshop were very helpful indeed but have also scared the $h1t out of me too... it is of course important to be aware of the possible outcomes. To paraphrase: prepare for the worst - and don't drive the car until it has been checked it is entirely possible that there is crankshaft damage (scoring) - they have seen this in a car with no metal in the oil and a lot less KMs If your crankshaft is too badly damaged then it is a rebuild and the job will be $20K+ big-end bearings can be done in-place ; high-pressure Vanos feed hose should always be done too and job cost is around $6K once you have metal contaminants in the engine there is risk of premature wear on the bearings - BM Workshop aren't keen on doing bearing replacements when this is the case. Funnily enough this is when most people will want their bearings done. They are prepared to lend the tools to a Wellington specialist such as Mike - which is very good of them. Don't expect anybody to warranty a job like this I've been reading up and using the super helpful BMW M5 Owners Club on Facebook - the two experts are Jim Colley from the USA - and Steve Lewis (FB: Mr Vanos, https://www.mrvanos.com/) from the UK. These guys are awesome. Jim Colley has a workshop that repairs crankshafts and he uses aftermarket bearings "Top secret weld repair and regrind. I usually then take off an extra 1/2 thousandth to add oil clearance and then avoid OEM bearings at all cost. For cranks that have all journals ground down, I use VAC coated bearings at OEM size. For non-reclearanced cranks I use BE Bearings. All cranks are then hardened after machine work and rebalanced for OEM rods/pistons/ring sets... I'm just not a fan of the harder surface layer on the OEM bearings now. I like as much delta as possible between crank and bearing hardness." "I have the cranks ground (removing bearing shell backing material, weld built up, then ground back original size and polished, finally hardened. This allows using OEM size bearings." "Because when I take an engine I built with larger clearance bearings apart after 5134 miles, 10k miles, or 27k miles, it looks better than the one BMW did from the factory? No one has yet to open an engine with bearing that provide the same oil clearance engine builders have been using for years and seen the same premature wear patterns that the S65 and S85 exhibit. Sometimes, even BMW thinks they are smarter than they are and make mistakes. For the engines following the S65 and S85, they oddly went back to the same clearance thumbrule they've always followed before." "As a former nuclear engineer turned engine builder, the only factors that extra clearance would play a role in are .00025 inches further stroke of the rod which is will within the piston crown to head clearance of .005". Since the oil pump maintains a constant output pressure, the increased flow from clearance would have a negligible effect on flow to other components aside from increasing main bearing oil flow which is also a good thing. There was a Powerpoint presentation that leaked out a few years ago detailing how BMW used some predictive mathematical modeling on the S85 crank design to reduce the amount of real world testing needed. IMO, they relied too much on what the model data yielded and less on conventional testing with historical data to back it up." "The only bearings I would consider using are BE and VAC. I prefer BE because their QA far exceeds VAC (VAC bearings are kind of like a box of chocolates), but will use VAC if I measure every bearing individually." "You can't change the other bearings (mains) without removing the engine. Might as well rebuild it at that point. As for other things during a rod bearing change, do the vanos line. If old style (pre 12/05 build), change the vanos drive gears on the pump and crank. Piston skirt oil squirters were redesigned around 08, huge improvement and better piston cooling. I've seen a couple of motors pop ring lands on a piston due to overheating on the top ring." Steve Lewis uses new BMW crankshafts (~£3K) and BMW bearings "Not had any issues with BMW bearings and a 5w40 Motul race oil. Bearings come back out looking like new. Presumably your resizing the mains to suit the extra oil flow needed to feed the rods?" "Once a bearing has spun the rod end is scrap. You need to change the con rod which is engine strip down. The only way to do it properly. Out of all the v10’s and V8 M3’s I’ve built with spun bearings not one crank has been reusable." "The cranks are really soft which once the bearing touches takes a fair amount of material off. I’ve measured over 1.6mm material missing on some engines. S54 cranks when bearings spin might take 0.25mm at worst" Views after a crankshaft/bearing replacement "Unless it’s had piston rings fitted it doesn’t need running in. Oil change after 50 miles wouldn’t hurt to make sure the last of the metal is out the engine from the failure" So I've asked Jon at Auto38 to inspect the crankshaft and we will make decisions from there... so the M5 is off the road until further notice. Fingers crossed I just need to do bearings - and will plan on doing the BE Bearings like @aja540i used ; and will likely do the other items recommended by Jim Colley. Another aspect of E60 M5 preventative maintenance is the clutch release bearing... advice from Mr Vanos (Steve Lewis): "Well, this was a surprise for us and certainly the owner. The known problem of the clutch release bearing on this car being made from aluminium has bitten this car, hard. The bearing gauled up on the gearbox input shaft, damaging the clutch and flywheel. This didn't seem too big of an issue until we discovered the crankshaft moved in the block backwards and forwards 11mm. Engine out stripdown reveals the damage as shown. Basically the SMG has the power to actuate the clutch no matter what and as such it has pushed and pulled the crank against the thrust bearing, destroying it and splitting the block in half. I have seen this before but the clutch had been changed by a other garage so I didn't get to see the cause of the damage. Top and bottom of this is, get your release bearing changed ASAP to the newer teflon bearing that won't stick the shaft. We can do this for £350 all in. The engine is this car is destroyed, along with Vanos solenoids, oil cooler, oil filter housing and anywhere else the huge amount of metal paste has got to." Once I've dealt with the bearings issue (and depending on what happens ) this might be next on the list... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZ BMW 368 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 Jesus.... ? 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, NZ BMW said: Jesus.... ? Jesus rides a horse and has chosen not to drive a BMW. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZ BMW 368 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, TermiPeteNZ said: Jesus rides a horse and has chosen not to drive a BMW. The question is: Will your M5 also rise on the third day? ? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZ_InFerno 371 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 Is it cheaper to get another M5 that's already had the work done, where the crankshaft is OK? Or one with lower kms and more life left in it before these faults occur. That's a heck of a fault list ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 34 minutes ago, NZ_InFerno said: Is it cheaper to get another M5 that's already had the work done, where the crankshaft is OK? Or one with lower kms and more life left in it before these faults occur. That's a heck of a fault list ? The thought has crossed my mind - and there's some reasonable options like this: https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-2418435201.htm - my preferred colour combination and including a 3yr MBI - for $24K. But the MBI approach of 'fix it when it fails' with cover up to XX per failure doesn't work so well if you need a V10 engine rebuild and you're only covered for $5-$10K. Replacing one 15yr-old high performance car with another old one of the same type also carries the risk of trading or repeating sets of problems. And what do i do with the current vehicle? Jon's had an M5 in with 60KMs and much worse bearing wear - so KMs is only an indicator. The FB group shows that the bearings can be worn at all sorts of ages - or not. Without going into the engine you don't know if the crankshaft is actually OK. In actuality the fault list isn't huge at present... small coolant leak - every BMW gets leaks stuffed mirror glass - relatively minor fuel sender - an annoyance worn bearings - expected Common sense - if you need/expect cars to have fewer problems, don't buy BMWs, don't buy M cars and buy much newer vehicles. This is a bonkers 2005 500HP supercar that cost over $200K when new and is only worth $20K now ... which makes it cheap, but not really. I remember when i was looking at buying an AMG E55 each airbag suspension unit was $1800 to replace, and they're a common failure item. Colleague of mine was faced with a Merc CLK convertible power arm replacement costing $7K. ? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aja540i 1906 Report post Posted January 14, 2020 Better the devil you know... unfortunately all of these M5s will need this work done at some stage, I was lucky I got 160k out of mine with no crank damage, but some with half that mileage will be toast. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GorGasm 563 Report post Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Just yuck. I am relieved to have mine gone in some ways. The E55 is also no where near as intensive maintenance wise. Even the suspension can be completely replaced for $3k. However, despite being faster, the E55 is a terrible handling car with the air suspension, nowhere near as capable as the M5. Edited January 15, 2020 by GorGasm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted January 15, 2020 On 1/13/2020 at 9:20 PM, TermiPeteNZ said: despite passing many warrants previously, the windows were identified as being tinted at twice the legal level (70%!). I thought they were factory tinted but this is not the case. So this means getting the existing tints removed (carefully!) and applying new ones at 35%. not important but AFAIK the % for tints refers to VLT - visible light transmission which means it lets in 35% light. so if it is at twice the legal limit it must have 17.5 or more commonly 20% tints Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TermiPeteNZ 1319 Report post Posted January 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, qube said: not important but AFAIK the % for tints refers to VLT - visible light transmission which means it lets in 35% light. so if it is at twice the legal limit it must have 17.5 or more commonly 20% tints My bad ? but good to know thanks @qube Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
