Govt Breathes New Life Into "Clean Car" Legislation

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Now that Winston Peters is no longer in a position to block the idea through Parliament the Government have resurrected a revised version of the "clean car" scheme.

Details are a little vague at this point, in terms of incentives to the consumer, and the emphasis is on the importers (new and used) to balance the numbers on what they are bringing in. In the immediate term, I would say this would impact mildly on the new car buyer and would take a while to flow through into the used car / classic part of the market.

Interestingly the current 20 years or older excemption for emissions is looking to be extended out to 40 years and even then only for certain vehicles. This would have a more direct effect some modern classics, E46 M3 for example.

Details of the proposal can be found here..

https://autotalk.co.nz/news/how-will-the-clean-car-importation-standard-work

 

[Sammo 2544]

Exemptions; scratch built vehicles and modified vehicles certified by the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association Incorporated.

Good to know my coilover & manual swap cert will make me exempt - maybe I'll keep the E46 forever 😎

[Driftit 2078]

Quote

On average, New Zealanders pay 65 percent more in annual vehicle fuel costs than people in the European Union, even though Europe’s petrol prices are higher.

I would like to see how they came to this figure.
I have questions.  E.g. does it take into consideration our extremely inefficient roading and poor town/city to town/city public transport?

But I would guess it comes down to our ancient fleet and love of modern yet inefficient Utes.
Shame buying a new efficient non boring/ugly car is out of reach for most NZer's due to our terrible finance and lease programs.

[balancerider 758]

Tax benefits for utes x utes being driven like they're stolen = absurd fuel consumption numbers. I suspect most of them are averaging 15l/100k.

(for reference my diesel with predominantly urban driving long term averages 6.8/100)

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2021 at 9:02 AM, Driftit said:

But I would guess it comes down to our ancient fleet and love of modern yet inefficient Utes.
Shame buying a new efficient non boring/ugly car is out of reach for most NZer's due to our terrible finance and lease programs.

Market stats tend to show two things about Kiwi buyers (as an overall sweeping statement) they tend to buy Ute / SUV vehicles or performance vehicles (STi, HSV, AMG, M, etc) in much higher numbers than most other markets. Combined with the fact there is no feasible public transport in most areas, and the spread of the population across large areas (=longer distances travelled by car) as you say Dan, equals very high fuel usage for the population at large.

It will be interesting to see if the number of vehicles (cars, SUVs, Utes, Light vans) exceeds the number of people in NZ for the last year. It was getting close to parity in the last figures that I saw. Most houses have two or three cars (more for bigger families with kids that drive) these days (not to mention, boats, quads, jet-skis, weed-eaters, etc) so again more kms travelled and more fuel used.

The age of the average car in NZ is also an issue, in terms of both safety features, and emissions / fuel consumption levels. Now you could argue the number of vehicles in NZ v the number of trees we have it isn't an issue, but I guess every little bit helps, which is what the government is aiming for here, especially when we have renewable generation of most of our electricity so EVs are a viable alternative here.

With this type of legislation the intention is always to improve the age of the fleet and get the "old dungers" off the road, however, it is questionable as to whether this works in reality. The type of owner that has the "old dunger" is not really going to be able to move up into a newer clean / efficient vehicle, and the vehicles that are slightly better than what they currently have are going to be fewer and far between. So the outcome is often that they stick with what they have and patch it up to keep it going, which has the opposite effect. Only time will tell...

[Driftit 2078]

Has anyone come across what the governments plan for recycling Electric vehicles will be?
Or are we just going to make that out of sight out of mind?  Ship it to some 3rd world country.

[treone 648]

I'll stick to my gas guzzling, high emissions 25 year-old 'dungers' me thinks 😉

[Gaz 1060]

Had a large number of enquiries on EVs today at work strangely enough....

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On 2/1/2021 at 6:45 PM, treone said:

I'll stick to my gas guzzling, high emissions 25 year-old 'dungers' me thinks 😉

There is an argument that this approach is better for the planet... no added emissions for the manufacture of a new vehicle if you keep the old one.

[balancerider 758]

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/108867/terry-baucher-looks-some-taxation-ramifications-climate-change-commissions-draft

If this govt want to be 'transformative', this would be a good place to start. 78% of new vehicles are utes or SUV's...

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2021 at 7:19 PM, 3pedals said:

show me an efficent EV or hybrid that isn't a 'passenger car' maybe they should align the tax law with policy ??? 

I was going to add all the BEV / PHEV SUVs but I think you are combining that segment in with 'passenger cars', so have left those out.

In all honesty it is the light commerical / SUV segment that is most suited to battery electric power currently, as these are big heavy vehicles in ICE guise, so the addtion of a load of heavy batteries to give a decent range keeps it in the same wieght v performance category.

[Michael. 2313]

On 2/1/2021 at 4:21 PM, Driftit said:

Has anyone come across what the governments plan for recycling Electric vehicles will be?
Or are we just going to make that out of sight out of mind?  Ship it to some 3rd world country.

Hahaha. 

Apparently turn the batteries into street lighting power sources powered by solar, some clowns say.

It's just a money grab all this new tech and new sector of the industry.

Someone else can work out the problems in the coming decades. 

[Michael. 2313]

^ Lol you sound fun.

Fire up some more coal plants I say! China is! 

[coop 261]

On 1/29/2021 at 12:30 PM, balancerider said:

Tax benefits for utes x utes being driven like they're stolen = absurd fuel consumption numbers. I suspect most of them are averaging 15l/100k.

(for reference my diesel with predominantly urban driving long term averages 6.8/100)

How do you figure that...

I can get high 7s in the Ranger and Hilux, and when towing about 2.5t over the north Island mid 13s. 

New Ranger with the 2.0 is said to get in the 6s. 

 

I see the green faction is stepping up the hate on Utes as of late. 

Enviro nazis using emotive phrases but no logic to get the gullible on board and guilt trip those who own one or are contemplating it. 

Anti motoring rehtoric pushed by green ideology, politicians and the media. They're targeting Utes, which appear to have some support on here. But what next, your 30 year old car? Your modern car which is perceived to have an engine larger than what is needed because some bureaucrat said so? 

All these things are stepping stone to more regulation, control and tax. 

 

For what the Utes are, and are capable of, the misinformation said about them is unwarranted.

 

BTW, no fan of dual cab Utes by any means. Mainly due to the floggers who drive them. They're the most over priced, over rated and under developed vehicles out there.

Scrap FBT loop hole and get employees back into mid size cars like Camrys, Mazda 6, Mondeo as they were in the 80s and 90s. Before the ute fashion statement took off. 

 

 

 

[coop 261]

The reference to Ute fuel consumption was in response to the assumption they’re gas guzzlers, which they’re not. 
 

Edited February 10, 2021 by E30 325i Rag-Top
Quote

[FIAT 131R 223]

On 2/7/2021 at 1:29 PM, 3pedals said:

We have been doing this for about 10 years, batteries come out of EV's when they drop to about 80% capacity . We install them in back up supplies for cell phone towers and critical lighting  then  they are good for at least 15 years ,  and what do we do then - we recycle them which is quite easy.  

 Yes you can use them for street lighting and I am currently designing this into a remote roadway in NZ because it's cheaper than running grid sourced power to the location.  never mind the cost in diesel etc.  to trench and duct to the location.

It's not a money grab or ditching on future generations it's engineered sustainability - last project I saved you  the tax payer $23 grand a year on the lighting power bill and over $3 million is construction costs  - lucky we have "clowns" ??  

How many batteries are you recycling each year for street lighting.

 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Plenty of other companies out there giving EV batteries a second use.

Also a number of companies re-manufacturing / fixing / re-cycling EV batteries. Not sure there are any here in NZ but definitely in Aussie.

Iirc BMW also has a “whole of life” plan for all of its EV batteries so they are either re-used or disposed of properly and not just dumped.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

So, with the new budget there seems to be a $300m+ pot of money to be put towards encouraging buyers into EVs, which can be used once the government has worked out what this will be and how to apply it, and what cars it covers, etc. It will probably be a while before we see anything from that in the market place.

At the same time, there were a number of plans / suggestions / reports, that were released specifically related to the government goal of being "carbon neutral by 2050" which whilst it may sound a long way off, is still in most of our life-times. In amongst these blue sky dreaming documents were a few interesting little gems for private transport, buried in amongst all the non-specific "we need to do this but we don't have a solution of how it will happen" type objectives.

Transport, and in particular, the private passenger vehicle (ie us driving our cars / suvs) has been identified as the largest generator of CO2 emissions that can be dealt to (other big areas of emissions - trucks, ships, cows, etc seem to be being ignored as there does not seem to be any easy solution) which means it is getting a lot of direct attention. The common theme in all the reports is that the vast majority of us will be driving fully electric vehicles by this point in time, so not producing any C02. However, in order for this to be possible without the need for more CO2 to be produced from the electrical grid (apparently even geo-thermal production emits CO2, who'd have thunk it..) the overall number of journeys by private car is planned to be reduced massively, by upto 75% in one case.

So what happens to those other three out of the four journeys that are being made currently, the plan is that whilst there is some reduction in overall number of journeys - more working from home, on-line meetings, etc, the biggest reduction will be achieved by people using public transport. Hmm, interesting - a bit of work to be done on that side then. That way with many fewer journeys being made, fewer electric cars will be required, and the country will have the infrastructure to cope.

Very quietly, one report even went so far as to suggest that a TOTAL ban of ALL internal-combustion engines would be needed to get to the carbon neutral situation. So whether you want to or not, your only option would be to drive an EV. The proposal of what will happen to the current (and growning) NZ fleet of over 4 million private ICE vehicles that would effectively become paperweights was not even mentioned.

[Sammo 2544]

Manual electric classics will be an option for those who can afford it

https://electricgt.com/mission/

We best enjoy those induction and exhaust noises while we can!

[Michael. 2313]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:38 PM, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

So, with the new budget there seems to be a $300m+ pot of money to be put towards encouraging buyers into EVs, which can be used once the government has worked out what this will be and how to apply it, and what cars it covers, etc. It will probably be a while before we see anything from that in the market place.

At the same time, there were a number of plans / suggestions / reports, that were released specifically related to the government goal of being "carbon neutral by 2050" which whilst it may sound a long way off, is still in most of our life-times. In amongst these blue sky dreaming documents were a few interesting little gems for private transport, buried in amongst all the non-specific "we need to do this but we don't have a solution of how it will happen" type objectives.

Transport, and in particular, the private passenger vehicle (ie us driving our cars / suvs) has been identified as the largest generator of CO2 emissions that can be dealt to (other big areas of emissions - trucks, ships, cows, etc seem to be being ignored as there does not seem to be any easy solution) which means it is getting a lot of direct attention. The common theme in all the reports is that the vast majority of us will be driving fully electric vehicles by this point in time, so not producing any C02. However, in order for this to be possible without the need for more CO2 to be produced from the electrical grid (apparently even geo-thermal production emits CO2, who'd have thunk it..) the overall number of journeys by private car is planned to be reduced massively, by upto 75% in one case.

So what happens to those other three out of the four journeys that are being made currently, the plan is that whilst there is some reduction in overall number of journeys - more working from home, on-line meetings, etc, the biggest reduction will be achieved by people using public transport. Hmm, interesting - a bit of work to be done on that side then. That way with many fewer journeys being made, fewer electric cars will be required, and the country will have the infrastructure to cope.

Very quietly, one report even went so far as to suggest that a TOTAL ban of ALL internal-combustion engines would be needed to get to the carbon neutral situation. So whether you want to or not, your only option would be to drive an EV. The proposal of what will happen to the current (and growning) NZ fleet of over 4 million private ICE vehicles that would effectively become paperweights was not even mentioned.

These climate change zealots will come for the petrol and diesel car, especially older ones we love with the ferociousness of how they've gone for privately owned firearms. 

There is also a notable trend of this anti-freedom movement, some people hate the fact you can drive anywhere at anytime, instead you must use public transport, if it's not good & doesn't get you where you need to go , tough luck. We saw how they celebrated the lack of cars during the height of the covid lockdowns, they will cite how there was a reduction of emissions during this time, it's so obvious they will try play that card again to have climate lockdowns and probably bring back the careless day policies. 

 

39 minutes ago, Sammo said:

Manual electric classics will be an option for those who can afford it

https://electricgt.com/mission/

We best enjoy those induction and exhaust noises while we can!

That is such an expensive solution and totally destroys the appeal of a car as originally built, I can understand how some type of person might find the appeal but I am not one of them.

What good is an E34 M5 without the howling straight six, a Shelby 350 without the thumping V8, a Honda Type R without the 9000rpm redline or a Ferarri 512 without it's soulful engine & manual transmission, the list goes on. 

One of the only reasons I'm interested in cars is because of the sound the 1000s of different engines make and the way they produce their power & torque.. A silent mostly maintenance free electric motor makes it so boring I'd rather take up new hobby if that was were it was at. An electric car being fast or not isn't even relevant to me either, fast cars aren't really on my radar. I love the joy of a slow straight six or v8 that takes 6, 8 or even 10 seconds to get to 100kph, at least you can hear all the soul stirring noises on the way up to that while changing a gear or two. What a joy! 

 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

I just purchased this for Wifey. White Opal Pearl metalic paint and black leather interior. Pick up next week after PD , tinting all windows and GardX package 

https://www.honda.co.nz/jazz/jazz-e-hev-luxe/

Edited May 28, 2021 by B.M.W Ltd

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

I have a not so secret desire to buy a 60s Lincoln Continental , but all this stuff does mean i cant see the value in the $60-80K Sticker price for most of them in NZ. thats a lot of cash to have tied up.

as much as i dont like to admit, now is probably the best time to get out of classic cars here in NZ and europe. they have a way to go in the states yet though.

[Michael. 2313]

4 hours ago, _ethrty-Andy_ said:

I have a not so secret desire to buy a 60s Lincoln Continental , but all this stuff does mean i cant see the value in the $60-80K Sticker price for most of them in NZ. thats a lot of cash to have tied up.

as much as i dont like to admit, now is probably the best time to get out of classic cars here in NZ and europe. they have a way to go in the states yet though.

I love the appeal of those, such a classic.

Now is a great time to get any interesting older car, they are never going to get cheaper! 

[KwS 2425]

9 hours ago, B.M.W Ltd said:

I just purchased this for Wifey. White Opal Pearl metalic paint and black leather interior. Pick up next week after PD , tinting all windows and GardX package 

https://www.honda.co.nz/jazz/jazz-e-hev-luxe/

Im quite keen to upgrade the current daily Fit to one of these in a couple of years when they're on the used market (and cheaper). They're getting quite good reviews.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2021 at 9:23 PM, Michael. said:

Now is a great time to get any interesting older car, they are never going to get cheaper! 

In the months / weeks / days before the ban on internal combustion engined vehicles comes in I think they will be going pretty cheap..

Apparently there is a government "advisor" who is very much anti-combustion engines and pushing a very hard line agenda on the electrification of vehicles. Enjoy your classic cars whilst you can.