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You are missing the point in that physical size and weight are also factors in determining a performance engine. As pointed out, by your reasoning the Ford 5.4 quad cam (you could also add in BMW M62TU) are more of a performance engine than the LS1 for their irrelevant kW/litre figures. When the LS1 sh*t all over both of them in the real world back in the day! The success GM are having with their ohv small block, and Chrysler with theirs cproves you wrong re obsolete. If you are going to claim that of them, you may as well say it for all ICE, the current crop of small displacement turbo motors are simply giving them an extra lifeline. Consider the S62 and LS1 Callaway from the same era. Identical power and torque figures, and torque curves. From a performance view point which one excells more. The S62 that achieves the same from 700cc less, or the LS1 which is 30ish kg lighter and significantly, physically smaller - packaging, engine placement, COG. No doubt the E39 is a superior car, I'd say it's most likely a better car than the current FPV/HSV, but as far as a crate engine for a project track, targa car etc, the LS1 would be a decision from the head, a no brainer. The fact the LS1 doesn't rev as high, and uses 700cc to achieve the same doesn't take away any of its performance credentials. re obsolete ohv motors, my mate has the latest Dodge Ram with the 5.7 Hemi. Cylinder de activation and 8 speed auto. 105 litre tank which returns 900km mixture urban and motorway. You can't complain with that, just goes to show how versatile the small block push rod motors are. From towing 6 tonne in a pick up or run 12 second 1/4 mile or pull 600,000+ km in a taxi/limo no dramas! A while to go before they are obsolete.

I never imagined this thread would end up like this... Oh, and this forum software sucks hard. Give us a basic bbcode editor so we can actually post the sh*t we want!

What`s a something Yes Sam is the son of Ray.

Consider it a lesson learned, I did when it was my turn

No. This is attached to the side of the engine. Easy DIY. In my case, original is part 11747626351. I replaced with the updated part 11747649407. I bought it from FCPEuro.

The thing is this is fantasy not reality, the reality is this what you can buy not what you dream up. Also care to estimate the size of a DOHC engine at that CC? Well let me share something with you Ford went DOHC for the falcon range and the the engine was so physically big it had to sit high in the engine bag just to clear the strut towers this had a very negative effect on handling. Big CC DOHC V8s are TALL and WIDE, you need big engine bays to accommodate them. Click click starting to get it yet Ron? Ever wonder why the S65 has such a short stroke, well a good part of that is deck height. Short stroke engines have lower deck heights, lower deck heights keep the engine narrower. Oh and dont tell me the short stroke was to make it rev the s54 was under square and it revved quite well. BTW WTF Trump what's that got to do with anything. As to not getting it I get it perfectly it's you who doesn't get it. All you care about is KW/L and its a flawed metric, only useful in racing. Like I said earlier no one cares if you have a better KW/L ratio what matters is power to weight.

Ron the fact is they aren't but they use forced induction so it's a moot point. And as for sound the M4 is widely panned for having a crap sounding exhaust note, they even pipe it through the speakers to try and enhance it while the Camaro is praised for sounding great. Your swimming against the tide yet again Ron.

Yet again Ron this was the question and the answer yet again is yes because it increases the KW/KG ratio so any engine that increases the first and does not increase the latter can be considered a performance engine, why because it increases performance, sorry Ron I am trying to make this simple for you. I find your statement about the E36 not being interesting when you own one rather contrary. It's a very well regarded chassis and with a jump from 190 to 400 Hp I would think that would make it very interesting indeed. I certainly thought so when I drove it. BTW M50 198 kg M52 177 LS1 181 Kg. The V8 sits further back in the chassis help front to rear balance. So why is an engine that is as light as the engine it replaces but doubles the horsepower not a performance engine? You're not the only one here who has driven fast cars Ron, but I suspect your scope is limited if you haven't spent time with one of the modern big CC NA engines. It's not the same as an Alfa let me tell you that much.

Meremere to Silverdale is ~100km's I would have thought a quick shout out to Brent in Papakura or even $25 at Pick-a-Part might have been easier?

got this sussed out now, hope this helps somebody else out there!! Bighawks m602 on a E36 BMW RED, BLUE, YELLOW/BLACK - +12V live BLACK - Earth BROWN - Lock YELLOW -Unlock just trying to figure out the auto window roll up now..... if i press my lock button 5 or 6 times it rolls the windows up, but there must be a way to have them do it with just one press!

yep, I'm still loving mine and must have over 10,000 kms on them now which is a 'good thing' IME #; )

you only heard it idling and gentle revving up to 1500rpm! If it's "sound like a tractor ™" or "sound like an RB30 with fart cannon", you can probably acheive that sophisticated sound with the following: a grinder drill mig welder Please read the following contraindications before removing the innards of your exhaust: Contraindications may include: Headaches Nausea May be tiresome on a trip through resonanse droning May attract the attention of the constabulary May cause you problems with WoFs May cause you to fall out with your neighbours You may experience halucinations (such as you are being followed by a Nissan Skyline)

E46ti Manual Motorsport 126,000 km $5500 M54 Conversion as a xtra option. Can do full 330 suspension,brakes,LSD all for xtra $$

I find the hp/L a bit of a of red herring especially in road cars. A performance car by default is all about power to weight. (Ignoring chassis for the sake of this discussion). So this is really only relevant if you are racing in a class that has a cc restriction. A performance engine could be considered any engine that elevates your cars performance without unduly affecting the weight? Better power to weight yes sure I'll take that If you pull up to the traffic light drag strip give it a go and lose, do you say to your mate "yes well I won because I make more HP per litre than him"? No I dont think so. The measure should be HP per KG and HP per external volume. The classic NA engine for me is the GM LS series, specifically the alloy block versions. They are compact engines so if the measure was hp per cc of external volume they beat the Euro V8s. The BMW's have more HP per litre but not necessarily more HP. What about HP per kg? Again the OHV LS engines do very well here? What About torque per kg. Hard for a smaller NA engine to win that race. The OHV design will reach its limitation when it comes to revs. 7000 is an upper limit for sure while a OHC design can add 1000-1500 rpm to that level and continue making power. The reality is that in road cars that RPM difference is more like 500 rpm. BMW made a 5l V10 that made 500 HP, GM made a 7lt V8 that did the same. The GM engine is smaller and lighter. (65-75lbs) with a lower centre of gravity. So I think that HP in itself can be the measure and as for turbos well that changes everything. There is a saying in sales; "We buy on emotion and justify with logic" Never is this truer than when arguing about engines. Armour bolted on flame proof suit fitted.

100Hp/ litre seems about right to me, but a performance engine alone is useless, 500 hp in my 1900 Kg M5 gives good performance, 215 hp in a 650Kg Fraser clubman also gives excellent performance , but a 215 Hp 2 litre Iitre in my M5 would be rubbish! 500 hp in a 650kg Fraser on the other hand.....

we already have an e36 with an with a M54 and itb's

have plans to change the front of the Ti , to get rid of the ugly duckling look something like this but with a msport bumper

Wellingtons new 'smart' motorway. Feel for the Hutt Valley (SH2) commuters - it doesn't seem to be that 'smart' for them

It's between the Pure turbos and Hexxon turbo's - i'm personally leaning towards the Pure offering http://www.pureturbos.com/store/bmw-n54-pure-stage-2.html http://www.hexonautowerks.com/products_detail_36.htm?pg=&PdSearch= Am around 400 RWHP at the moment on stock turbo's - been pretty happy at that power level, but it's been 2 years and I'm getting a little bored and want to get some more , with the above turbo's - should be around 500-550 rwhp on 98 and 600+ rwhp on E85