Quick rant thread.

[kwhelan 241]

18 minutes ago, Jacko said:

Im no conspiracy nut, but I'm starting to think there is way more to this than meets the eye. Big power shifts are happening. 

Vanuatu must be close to defaulting on their chinese loans due to covid ending tourism, which means china essentially own em, they already have clandestine presence in the pacific and this will just make it formal.  

If Taiwan gets invaded (sep/oct is apparently the best Wx), the chinese then have a clear run down through micronesia into the pacific..... 

/tinfoil hat off. 

 

[Sammo 2544]

Goddamnit, already had to cancel a trip to Italy scheduled during the previous lockdown and have booked a 10 day South Island Road trip first week of September... 

First world problems huh

[coop 261]

5 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

22 deaths....the numbers speak for themselves. It's almost universally accepted that we have handled COVID-19 as well as humanly possible given the unknowns. Sure there have been issues, but when you set a high bar you are certain to have failures like this. When you don't really even try (like the US and the UK) you can effectively do no wrong. I'm pretty cheesed off my grandmother in the UK had to die at 72 (not a bad run admittedly) from COVID because the country is run by total fu*kwits these days...but hey ho I suppose some folks here in NZ couldn't go to their batches when they wanted to so were "put out"... 

We are one of or if not the most isolated country in the world. We had one month after the rest of the world until we had our first infection, and our population is smaller than Melbourne, with next to no population density. 
Clutching at straws to compare us on the world stage. 

 

I don’t think the majority of complaints are  about not being able to go to their batches. A few will make it to the sensationalist media so they can run with it. 
The complaints are more to do with the destroyed businesses and livelihoods across the country. 
 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by coop

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

5 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

 

Additionally, it's clear to me that the long term reliance on agricultural exports is not a safe position, as ultimately apart from relying on the 'NZ Quality' and 'Clean/healthy' selling points, pretty much any other country with the right conditions can produce meat and veg. China is always trying to establish illegal versions of Kiwi owned variets etc etc. The question for NZ is what is the future on the global stage? I feel like we seem to want to have it both ways, be a 'global player' but be a local little insular country at the edge of the world at the same time. I'm not certain both of those positions are compatible. 

History shows agricultural exports to be a very safe ecomomic option. NZ is in a particularly good position to provide the world with high quality food due to our climate (we don't even feature in the global top 10 for agritech, despite the size of agriculture as a percent of our GDP), legislation being the main barrier to fast growth in this area. Let's face it, the world is always going to need to eat.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

1 hour ago, Young Thrash Driver said:

History shows agricultural exports to be a very safe ecomomic option. NZ is in a particularly good position to provide the world with high quality food due to our climate (we don't even feature in the global top 10 for agritech, despite the size of agriculture as a percent of our GDP), legislation being the main barrier to fast growth in this area. Let's face it, the world is always going to need to eat.

True, very true. That said I suppose food is something as you say, that will always be needed, regardless of any other economic issues. 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

2 hours ago, coop said:

We are one of or if not the most isolated country in the world. We had one month after the rest of the world until we had our first infection, and our population is smaller than Melbourne, with next to no population density. 
Clutching at straws to compare us on the world stage. 

 

I don’t think the majority of complaints are  about not being able to go to their batches. A few will make it to the sensationalist media so they can run with it. 
The complaints are more to do with the destroyed businesses and livelihoods across the country. 
 

 

I know, I'm being a little glib there with the batch thing. 

Totally agree, we are in a very different position with COVID...but I don't have any doubt the outcome would have been the same as the US, UK or similar to what is now being seen in VIC and NSW if we had gone the same way. UK and US being severe examples, Brazil and India being totally extreme. 

Where NZ is very different is that the ICU capacity is alarmingly small...I work around the health sector here and the genuine sense of relief that ICUs were not swamped (and the extra deaths caused by lack of ICU spaces, heart attacks etc etc) was palpable. 

I do have sympathy for destroyed businesses and livelihoods....but there is some confidence that many thousands of lives have been saved. I for one am glad I'm not the person/people who have to put dollars on one side of the scale and human lives on the other. 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

5 hours ago, kwhelan said:

 

China have an economic victory over the entire world at this point and there isn't a military in the world right nowthat could stop China doing what it wants militarily in the Western Pacific.... realities to keep one up at night ...

[M3AN 4016]

Heck, the world didn't even stand up for Crimea, Taiwan is totally fooked (I'm afraid ?).

China are a bad actor, that's undeniable, if there's one thing economic we should be worried about here it's our trade dependence on China. And yes, we need to collectively protect the pacific nations.

Edited August 13, 2020 by M3AN

[kwhelan 241]

7 minutes ago, HalfJobHarry said:

I know, I'm being a little glib there with the batch thing. 

Totally agree, we are in a very different position with COVID...but I don't have any doubt the outcome would have been the same as the US, UK or similar to what is now being seen in VIC and NSW if we had gone the same way. UK and US being severe examples, Brazil and India being totally extreme. 

Where NZ is very different is that the ICU capacity is alarmingly small...I work around the health sector here and the genuine sense of relief that ICUs were not swamped (and the extra deaths caused by lack of ICU spaces, heart attacks etc etc) was palpable. 

I do have sympathy for destroyed businesses and livelihoods....but there is some confidence that many thousands of lives have been saved. I for one am glad I'm not the person/people who have to put dollars on one side of the scale and human lives on the other. 

so what has been done icu wise to prepare for the inevitable relapses or outbreaks, have they set up emergency preparations , ppe gear, done any work on isolating rest homes properly if it became needed, set up teams of people ready and trained in what to do because it looks like nothing has changed since the first day we went in to lockdown. hospitals went back to normal business and we don't appear any more ready than we were the first time

with all the knowledge learnt from other countries experiences what have we done to prepare for this time

[kwhelan 241]

10 minutes ago, HalfJobHarry said:

China have an economic victory over the entire world at this point and there isn't a military in the world right nowthat could stop China doing what it wants militarily in the Western Pacific.... realities to keep one up at night ...

chinas economy is extremely fragile, they are terrified, they are under far more stress internally than countries like USA, things can go very pear shaped very fast for china and they know that.its happened before, they have a lot of mouths to feed. its all an act

[kwhelan 241]

1 hour ago, Young Thrash Driver said:

History shows agricultural exports to be a very safe ecomomic option. NZ is in a particularly good position to provide the world with high quality food due to our climate (we don't even feature in the global top 10 for agritech, despite the size of agriculture as a percent of our GDP), legislation being the main barrier to fast growth in this area. Let's face it, the world is always going to need to eat.

world wars will be over fresh water supplies in the not too distant future

[M3AN 4016]

30 minutes ago, kwhelan said:

so what has been done icu wise to prepare for the inevitable relapses or outbreaks, have they set up emergency preparations , ppe gear, done any work on isolating rest homes properly if it became needed, set up teams of people ready and trained in what to do because it looks like nothing has changed since the first day we went in to lockdown. hospitals went back to normal business and we don't appear any more ready than we were the first time

with all the knowledge learnt from other countries experiences what have we done to prepare for this time

Have to call you on that one. 5m masks released from central repository yesterday, all rest homes locked down and no staff movement between them, 16 new fixed and mobile testing stations in the last 24h fully staffed with trained teams, 9 effective roadblocks sealing a city.

All of that is an improvement and in many cases they've hit the right standards. Perfect? No. Better? Yes.

Edited August 13, 2020 by M3AN
sp

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

[Driftit 2078]

9 hours ago, kwhelan said:

chinas economy is extremely fragile, they are terrified, they are under far more stress internally than countries like USA, things can go very pear shaped very fast for china and they know that.its happened before, they have a lot of mouths to feed. its all an act

Many forget or simply just don't know that if China went to War with one of the other big players, their population would starve in less than a year.

[kwhelan 241]

12 hours ago, M3AN said:

Have to call you on that one. 5m masks released from central repository yesterday, all rest homes locked down and no staff movement between them, 16 new fixed and mobile testing stations in the last 24h fully staffed with trained teams, 9 effective roadblocks sealing a city.

All of that is an improvement and in many cases they've hit the right standards. Perfect? No. Better? Yes.

 I get your point but 5m  masks means nothing really, if its even believable re the flu vaccines and PPE debarcle etc.

it won't stop a virus, the jury is still out on even their effectiveness, 1 hour tops for disposable then they need to be basically incinerated to be safe and thats n95 grade only not converted socks like on 7 sharp last night,

roadblocks are just reactionary, necessary granted but hardly planned for, possibly even illegal under current leg.

mobile testing, can't see how that helps TBH queues of people getting tested with no symptoms, no contact with anyone dangerous, just wasting everyones time

resthomes great, well done if its done correctly otherwise as useless as not testing customs staff, bus drivers, air hostesses etc

have they set up special wards to enable hospitals to carry on with their elective surgeries etc ,  treating the covid at same time,

without tossing nearly everyone else out to keep beds clear. got more respirators in for the inevitiable, those sorts of things

We have the advantage of hindsight and other countries experience now as we have delayed our outcomes so far. just hope we have learnt and prepared,

not convinced entirely tho

[huff3r 347]

People who just refuse to see anything positive and nitpick everything.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

18 hours ago, M3AN said:

Have to call you on that one. 5m masks released from central repository yesterday, all rest homes locked down and no staff movement between them, 16 new fixed and mobile testing stations in the last 24h fully staffed with trained teams, 9 effective roadblocks sealing a city.

All of that is an improvement and in many cases they've hit the right standards. Perfect? No. Better? Yes.

Excellent points. I find as a guest in this great country that there is a somewhat fatalistic outlook on things here, that everything seems terrible and poor, but in reality compared to even 'advanced' places like the US and the UK things are on the whole pretty good here. I wish more of us would stop to reflect on that a bit more. 

[M3AN 4016]

1 hour ago, HalfJobHarry said:

Excellent points. I find as a guest in this great country that there is a somewhat fatalistic outlook on things here, that everything seems terrible and poor, but in reality compared to even 'advanced' places like the US and the UK things are on the whole pretty good here. I wish more of us would stop to reflect on that a bit more. 

Perhaps that's it. I've lived overseas for over 8 years in two stints, including continental Europe for 6, that's only increased my appreciation of just how lucky we are down here. It's easy to take for granted what you have already.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

2 hours ago, M3AN said:

Perhaps that's it. I've lived overseas for over 8 years in two stints, including continental Europe for 6, that's only increased my appreciation of just how lucky we are down here. It's easy to take for granted what you have already.

It must be. One of the most common questions I get (usually from those who have not been overseas) is "Why do you like it so much here?? What's so good?".... I usually say as a small example like..not only do you have beautiful public parks everywhere (they have reduced over the decades in the UK), those parks almost always have public toilets/changing facilities etc (they were mostly all closed in the UK some 25-30 years back) and those facilities usually actually have TOILET ROLL in them (this was unheard of in my lifetime in the UK). This usually prompts some laughter and a reaction that surely I must be joking....because all of those things are "just normal right?"....no. We are very lucky here. 

[Gaz 1060]

On my first trip to Europe I spent a lot of time in major cities and started to miss the colour green, weird I know but it's something you take for granted. 

[M3AN 4016]

14 minutes ago, Gaz said:

On my first trip to Europe I spent a lot of time in major cities and started to miss the colour green, weird I know but it's something you take for granted. 

Yep, and the sound of birds (other than pigeons).

[richard 384]

31 minutes ago, M3AN said:

Yep, and the sound of birds (other than pigeons).

are you saying new Zealand citizens should be flightless, like our native birds.

[kwhelan 241]

2 hours ago, Gaz said:

On my first trip to Europe I spent a lot of time in major cities and started to miss the colour green, weird I know but it's something you take for granted. 

I thought singapore was beautifully green, every drab bit of concrete , even motorway overpasses had flower gardens etc, bloody impressive and so clean

[Driftit 2078]

I didn't miss NZ at all. I enjoyed having a city that had actual seasons. Not just warm rain, cold rain, sunburn. DC is greener, cheaper, more interesting, has more to do, more diverse and just as easy to escape to the wilderness. Great car scene, easy cheap travel, tons of sport every night of the week. And none of the Murica sh*t the NZ media feeds you unless you go looking for it.

The reason I'm here in NZ now? I had a 5 year diplomatic visa than ran out. And lots of elderly to spend time with while I can. 

[NZ BMW 368]

3 hours ago, Driftit said:

I didn't miss NZ at all. I enjoyed having a city that had actual seasons. Not just warm rain, cold rain, sunburn. DC is greener, cheaper, more interesting, has more to do, more diverse and just as easy to escape to the wilderness. Great car scene, easy cheap travel, tons of sport every night of the week. And none of the Murica sh*t the NZ media feeds you unless you go looking for it.

The reason I'm here in NZ now? I had a 5 year diplomatic visa than ran out. And lots of elderly to spend time with while I can. 

Have to agree. Georgetown and Virginia are lovely places. I always think I would like to live in Georgia to the north of Atlanta, beautiful place and good house prices for what you get. I like Chicago too but damn it gets cold!  

Although, I will say that having been travelling to the Midwest and South 5-6 times a year for the last 10 years, there is a bit of that ‘murica thing going on there with an underlying anti-foreigner feeling which has developed over time. I have been in a number of meetings where “unfair trade deals”, Trump paraphernalia on display in offices and quite personal attacks on Obama from businesspeople. It’s got a lot worse in the last few years. 

It is also very racially divided outside of the big, coastal cities. I think in this time I have dealt professionally with one African American person, maybe one or two Hispanic Americans. Everyone else was white. 

As a European Kiwi I get along fine. I suspect others who look a bit different would find it a bit tough.