Are manuals still desirable?

[gjm 3258]

1 hour ago, aja540i said:

And trust me, you can have fun in a 318is if you want to!

I've been having fun in Miss M's 318i. Not even an 'S'. 

For me, manuals are so much more fun. There's a sense of satisfaction in driving a manual well which leaves me feeling as much passenger as driver in a car with an auto 'box.

[Olaf 3309]

4 hours ago, 3pedals said:

Olaf " but how often do you go for a drive purely for pleasure?"

There is the rub , daily drive includes 11km of fun driving terrain  each way , some suburban crap  and generally only two sets of traffic lights ,  - so  just about every day at lease once ---- hence the manual fits well.

 If you don't like your daily drive and the way to deal with it is to slush about, text, play with the radio and load up the cup holders - change your daily drive - why waste your life sitting in traffic.

I don't have much option with my current gig.  35kms each way.  Mostly SH1 or SH2.  Next gig I'll be able to walk to work again, much more fun.

2 hours ago, 3pedals said:

Having driven an M3 V8 manual around Auckland and in traffic, there is nothing scary about high powered manuals, in fact quite the opposite.

 a 318 would drive me NUTS

I had a super drive in an e36 318iS coupe manual, back in 1993.  It was less than 6 months old.  Sure, it was missing 2 cylinders, but I was steering it with the loud pedal, the balance was superb.  Did 600kms in it, loved every minute.

[jom 98]

On 11/08/2016 at 6:13 AM, Olaf said:

And yes, I got my license around cars with non-synchro 1st gear, mastered double de-clutching and heel-and-toe downshifts before I was 16... consider myself a dyed-in-the-wool manual driver.

<Yorkshire accent>

You were lucky! I took my test on a car with no synchro on first, synchro gone on second, AND a column shift!

</Yorkshire accent>

[gjm 3258]

Just now, jom said:

<Yorkshire accent>

You were lucky! I took my test on a car with no synchro on first, synchro gone on second, AND a column shift!

</Yorkshire accent>

Aye... An' thass when there weren't lines downt middle oot rud, neither!

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

19 hours ago, 3pedals said:

If you don't like your daily drive and the way to deal with it is to slush about, text, play with the radio and load up the cup holders - change your daily drive - why waste your life sitting in traffic.

It's not that I don't like the daily drive, it's more that the experience is not enhanced by pushing a clutch pedal in and out. I work where I want to work, and I live where I want to live and the chances of getting the company to move offices because of where I live is pretty much non-existant. Plus, with all the convenience of modern connectivity I can have conference calls and send / receive e-mail and messages while I'm in the car. Probably wouldn't be able to do that whilst changing gear.

The cupholders comment reminds me of another great point with autos, you can drive, be on the phone, drink your coffe / speights / eat your burger all at the same time without having to take both hands off the wheel or throw the food and drink all over the passenger seat. This is absolute gold on long, late night drives.

As hybrid says above, the answer is simple, get a modern auto for the daily and an E30 manual for the week-ends. Not sure any of this really adds to the original topic though, but any-who...

[KwS 2421]

because driving a fun, fast, manual car really slowly in start stop traffic sucks.

An auto 335i with Alpina trans tune though, now you're talking.

[huff3r 347]

44 minutes ago, KwS said:

because driving a fun, fast, manual car really slowly in start stop traffic sucks.

An auto 335i with Alpina trans tune though, now you're talking.

Maybe to some, but I'm actually with Ron on this one (can't believe I just said that :P). I don't mind a manual in traffic at all, did it everyday into Wellington from Porirua for a while in both a Legacy RS and an E30 with bucket seats and a rollcage! My AU falcon I wouldn't have wanted to do it in, but that was a terrible gearbox and shitty clutch.

Although now traffic is 4 cars ahead of me at the lights

[M3AN 4016]

Is SMG any good? I don't think that's ever been discussed on the internet. Is it better than a manual?

[Neal 540]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Ban or public flogging

[KwS 2421]

3 hours ago, 3pedals said:

DCT maybe but the real point is::  Manuals have value to those who see the value,  others will drive autos and make excuses.  

I make no excuses, i LOVE driving manuals, when driving for fun, but autos have their place. The future is automatic ratio changing.

[Olaf 3309]

12 hours ago, 3pedals said:

And if it was in NZ then you would have had a Licence   not this modern License rubbish

f#cking autocorrect. 

my first licence was in a small booklet, and you paid a fee and got a sticker in the back reflecting the licence fee (current).  It was issued by the Ministry of Transport.

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Olaf

[Olaf 3309]

13 hours ago, jom said:

<Yorkshire accent>

You were lucky! I took my test on a car with no synchro on first, synchro gone on second, AND a column shift!

</Yorkshire accent>

column-shift, nay problem!  holdens, falcons, (1st = toward you and down, 2nd = away from you and up, 3rd (top) = away from you and down) even those rubbish brit cars like mk1 and mk2 cortinas (and if my memory serves, 1st = toward you and up, 2nd = toward you and down, third = away from you and up, forth = away from you and down)...   oh yeah, HR Holden 3 speed manual, what a hoot.

[jom 98]

8 hours ago, Olaf said:

column-shift, nay problem!  holdens, falcons, (1st = toward you and down, 2nd = away from you and up, 3rd (top) = away from you and down) even those rubbish brit cars like mk1 and mk2 cortinas (and if my memory serves, 1st = toward you and up, 2nd = toward you and down, third = away from you and up, forth = away from you and down)...   oh yeah, HR Holden 3 speed manual, what a hoot.

Not a Holden, it was a 1958 Morris Oxford...same gears as a Cortina etc.  Can't remember where reverse was, though....

[kiwi535 538]

i remember a mate had a 4 speed manaul column(austin a55),i think reverese was engaged by pulling the end of the shift lever out and away from, you and down.

The first time i drove a e34 535 i had a few attempts at engaging reverse.The hold out spring was a strong spring.Now that was a car that was literally a pain in trafiic, stiff clutch and a first gear that was ridiculously low in most circumstances ,but slightly too high in  stop start traffic.In a bad traffic jam once after about 20 minutes of pushing the clutch in and out i had a seriously sore left leg..

If i have a choice i would get a manual every time.In my experience a manual will get better fuel economy than a auto.A lab result is one thing real life is another.I cant comment on the very latest autos,but i think i would prefer a smg/dct than a torque converter.I do not drive in stop start traffic every day though

[Allanw 1071]

We've got a '29 Model A Ford in the family too... It has NO synchros (it's not even constant mesh. They're actual sliding gears!), 3 speeds, dogleg first and reverse where first would normally be - you don't have to do anything special to select it either More than once, I've sat at a traffic light... in reverse... waiting, waiting... Ooooh fuxie!

[Driftit 2069]

Plenty of Manual Euros here in the US.  Even E60 M5's of which Europe never got.

But with the highways over here a manual is just a hassle.  Auto for the road.  Manual for the track.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Driving a 4 Series coupe at the moment, with a manual box, and the thing that's hardest to get used to is the engine Stop / Start.

Feels so weird that it cuts out when you lift the clutch pedal in neutral, I keep thinking I've stalled it, and I have no issue with the stop/start in the autos i've been driving.

Given enough time it would start to fell Ok though I guess.

[MD13 492]

^ This would drive me nuts - auto or manual!

[huff3r 347]

2 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

That start stop technology is SFD  about as smart as self releasing hand brakes

It actually works really well in practice, however I hate to think how long starter motors will last...

[hybrid 1043]

1 hour ago, MD13 said:

^ This would drive me nuts - auto or manual!

You do get use to it. Use to kind of annoy me too but now I love it. Mine works off  brake pressure, by the time you have moved your foot back to the accelerator pedal the engine is running and ready to take off.

[hybrid 1043]

50 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

As for the stop start technology -  no thanks - try it at an intersection on an open country road or sliding at slow speed on ice  with the wheels locked up and the engine off - no steering.

It doesnt quite work like that, if you turn the steering wheel  while off it will start the engine again also

[Apex 693]

2 hours ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Driving a 4 Series coupe at the moment, with a manual box, and the thing that's hardest to get used to is the engine Stop / Start.

Feels so weird that it cuts out when you lift the clutch pedal in neutral, I keep thinking I've stalled it, and I have no issue with the stop/start in the autos i've been driving.

Given enough time it would start to fell Ok though I guess.

My Ford Ranger only shuts off when its in neutral at the lights. I got used to it after a week.

Cars have come a long way, a modern manual is so easy to drive in traffic, the last couple I have had as drivers had all sort of tech to make it easy, hill start assist, anti stall etc. 

Driving my old 205 on the other hard, well, thats not fun in traffic at all.

 

 

[M3AN 4016]

I only find a manual less appealing in heavy traffic because you need so much intervention to stay with the flow and I find that irritating. The rest is all positive to me.

The thing that irritates me most about autos is that on the open road most people brake for corners because they're in drive and therefore probably the wrong gear for the upcoming corner. If people would actually change down rather than braking I'd find autos more forgiveable.

2 hours ago, Apex said:

...all sort of tech to make it easy, hill start assist, anti stall etc. 

Very true. But if you can drive a manual properly in the first place you don't need any of this right?

[huff3r 347]

3 minutes ago, M3AN said:

 

Very true. But if you can drive a manual properly in the first place you don't need any of this right?

If you can fly a plane properly you don't need Autopilot. It's still nice to have though.

[M3AN 4016]

Just now, huff3r said:

If you can fly a plane properly you don't need Autopilot. It's still nice to have though.

I fundamentally disagree but that's okay. Auto-pilot, like cruise control, is not a substitute for poor skills.