Gull 98

[shuey 61]

Hi team.  Is Gull 98 ok to run in E92 M3?  I have heard no.  Today I was told yes by someone who runs his F10 M5 on it all the time.  Would be great if it’s ok as can’t buy 98 in Whangarei (except for Gull) and continuously dragging 98 home from Auckland by the 20 litre container.  Cheers.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

If it’s pure 98 then it will be fine, it’s the Gull stuff that has the ethanol blend in it which can cause issues - Force 10 I think it’s called?

[TLH 45]

From what I've read, the gull 98 is 95 octane plus 10% ethanol.

[C-130 Hercules 570]

You'd be better off to run BP or Mobil 95 instead of Gull's Force 10.

(and drag some 98 home every now and then for a treat) 

Edited August 16, 2019 by C-130 Hercules

[zero 1162]

I've been running gull 98 in all my beemers for years with no issues.

I did a test and used BP 98 for several tanks in a row but noticed no difference except to my wallet so switched back to gull.

[shuey 61]

Cheers everyone.  Guess I’ll just keep dragging it home from the big smoke.

[aja540i 1906]

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?

[GorGasm 563]

Yep Gull 98 is fine.  Anyone who says otherwise is dreaming.

 

"E10 fuels can safely be used in all BMW passenger cars from all model years. However, irrespective of ethanol content, the minimum octane rating as specified in the user manual must be observed as before, since some BMW models require Super Plus RON 98 to reduce knock"

Edited August 17, 2019 by GorGasm

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Interesting, what is the source of that quote?

[Blackie 510]

I googled that for you

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-cars-can-cope-with-e10-fuel-32393.html

[325_driver 422]

My father was the operations manager for Gull Petroleum, and he was the chemical engineer for all of their fuels, including ethanol blends, force 10 etc - I can ask him for a detailed explanation if you all want lol? What do we want to find out about the fuel? I'll dig into it and report back. 

From my memory when he was designing it, i heard it was actually supposedly superior for newer cars both in performance and better on the engines, it was only some of the older motors that might have had issues with the dryer combustion from the ethanol content.

Edited August 20, 2019 by 325_driver

[zero 1162]

@325_driver it would be certainly interesting to learn from someone in the know as there are so many myths around.

 

How does it differ from what the other fuel manufacturers offer?

[325_driver 422]

@zero yeah, he did the entire mix for it, i'll see if i can pin him down and get some detailed specifics about how ethanol blends interact with motors, and performance specifics

i used to talk to him heaps about the specifics of gull fuels, but its very detailed and has escaped my memory

I was always angry with him for not just doing it in his own time, patenting it, and selling it back to the fuel company lol ... cause DAMN! 

Edited August 20, 2019 by 325_driver

[shuey 61]

Sounds awesome.  All I really want to know is can I run my E92 M3 on the stuff.  If I can, then I can buy it here, instead of what’s happening now - mercy dashes to Auckland to pick up 98 fuel for my M3 and my mates M5.  Cheers.

[andrewm 236]

Gull 98 is Gull 95 with ~10% ethanol.

~80% gasoline, ~10% ethanol, ~4% Toluene, ~3% Benzene and ~3% proprietary 'performance additives'

Yes you can run it all day long. The issues with ethanol on modern engines isn't generally that it corrodes anything, its that it has ~30% less energy than gasoline for a specific volume and has a different ideal air fuel ratio - in high ethanol percentages the ECU is unable to adjust fueling to compensate risking detonation.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by andrewm

[Neal 540]

Ran Mobil 98 in. Car and bike for a few years.

Didnt ride the bike much and had in the tank too long. Tried to start bike ( Ducati 748r) no go.

left it for a few months more and then got dealer to pick up.

basically fuel lines had turned to a snot / marshmallow substance, fuel pump fckd , sender stuffed. Basically $1400 in parts.

i won’t use ethanol blends again. 

[Olaf 3309]

I understood the greatest risk with fuels containing ethanol is that it emulsifies on contact with water, eg the condensation in your fuel tank.  The emulsion sinks to the bottom of your tank, and f#%ks up your fuel system.  Very bad news for boaties of course, frequently with large alloy underfloor tanks.  How fast can you say 'expensive outboard rebuild'.  Still, my BMWs are not boats, not even the e60. 
 

I'm open-minded and very interested to read the 'real oil' on Gull's 98, though.  It's not like I'm a petrochemical engineer!

[325_driver 422]

@Olaf i have a story that might make you laugh then haha

back in my e30 days when i was younger, one of the spare e30's i had was parked up for a long time, and water got into the fuel tank, alot of it, how, i dont know, but it wouldn't start because water was the only thing going through the fuel pump

we tried draining the fuel tank, but the design of the fuel bowl is that even after draining the fuel, the water remained right in the area that would get sucked up by the fuel pump

I didnt have any suction type things that could reach it either

But water is soluble in ethanol, so i poured like 5l of ethanol in, it dissolved all the water, and then poured the fuel in and just like that, the e30 was back in action.

[Mad_Max 227]

3 hours ago, Olaf said:

I understood the greatest risk with fuels containing ethanol is that it emulsifies on contact with water, eg the condensation in your fuel tank.  The emulsion sinks to the bottom of your tank, and f#%ks up your fuel system.  Very bad news for boaties of course, frequently with large alloy underfloor tanks.  How fast can you say 'expensive outboard rebuild'.

Our old inboard with it's 351 Cleveland and 60l alloy tank used to sit parked up for 8 months of the year. First thing we used to do was pour a litre of methylated spirits (which is ethanol) into the tank before towing to the caravan park (over an hour away of shaking the tank) before starting it. Never had a problem once we learned that trick.

1 hour ago, 325_driver said:

But water is soluble in ethanol, so i poured like 5l of ethanol in, it dissolved all the water, and then poured the fuel in and just like that, the e30 was back in action.

I was told not so much water being soluble in it, rather the ethanol bonds to the water and absorbs the compression in the motor so the water molecules didn't cause any damage when they didn't compress. I'm not a science teacher so could very well be wrong lol (and would be interested to hear the science behind it if I am) but either way, ethanol/methylated spirits has been known for years to work like that.

[325_driver 422]

@Mad_Max

?

so if any of you lads get water in the tank - YOU KNOW THE WAY TO GO! lol

[Mad_Max 227]

That's good info and a good science lesson all rolled into one.... thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Edited August 21, 2019 by E30 325i Rag-Top

[Driftit 2069]

My race car has been sitting stored with E10 in its tank for 4 years.

Planned to drain and replace all fluids.  But I wonder if it will be ok.

[Mad_Max 227]

6 minutes ago, Driftit said:

My race car has been sitting stored with E10 in its tank for 4 years.

Planned to drain and replace all fluids.  But I wonder if it will be ok.

Na the car will be completely toasted and not worth the cost to repair. Best to just give it to me, I'll dispose of the whole thing for ya ?????

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

It will run Ok, because the octane rating is comparable with a pure petroleum 98 fuel, even if it is a little bit off the M3 would have knock sensors to adjust the advance mapping to suit the fuel.

The thing I understand with Ethanol fuels is that it acts as quite an agressive cleaner, so if there is any dirt or contamination in the fuel lines, it gets removed by the ethanol. If it gradually dissolves, fine, all good no problems, the issues come when chunks start to come away as they are being dissolved, which can then block injectors, etc. So if you've always used it, then no worries, will be clean as a whistle. Its more of an issue if you switched to it after using other stuff.

Or was that bio-diesel? Or both... long time ago now.

[lord_jagganath 421]

Biodiesel would be the nastier stuff, it is both degradeable and hygroscopic,  and will do amazing things to nitrile rubbers, swelling cracking and making it friable.