Police frustrations

[Herbmiester 923]

I dont usually get into my real bugbears but as a Hunter and firearms owner I am so disappointed by the Police over the granting of a Licence to the Christchurch Terrorist. I do admit to having a Dog in this fight so to speak, and I personally know the previous Police Inspector in charge of firearms. He had backed up everything that Stuff published last week  regarding the poor performance of Police in checking Tarrant's background. He should never have been given a licence  yet Minister Nash keeps coming forward and saying everything was done correctly. Firearms ownership is a very divisive and emotional subject with people having very strong opinions either way, I get that. What annoys me is that internally Police would have know pretty quickly if things were done correctly and the Government would have known as well. I guess we will have clearer indication when the Royal Commission reports but I am convinced someone is telling lies.

[kwhelan 241]

the real bugbear was this all came out in first few weeks but the ever protective media chose to basically ignore reporting of it until now

[zero 1162]

Both the government and the media have let us down on this one.

 

Jacinda doesn't seem to get held to account like her predecessors were.

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

Back in the day when I got my fire arms licence your guns were registered against that licence. Your property was inspected and all firearms were sold with a transfer against that licence to another holding a licence. This included private and commercial sales This system should be brought back in and policed appropriately. Online sales  should be made illegal. Pick up only after all the paper work is carried out and registered..... My opinion

[gjm 3258]

13 minutes ago, B.M.W Ltd said:

Back in the day when I got my fire arms licence your guns were registered against that licence. Your property was inspected and all firearms were sold with a transfer against that licence to another holding a licence. This included private and commercial sales This system should be brought back in and policed appropriately. Online sales  should be made illegal. Pick up only after all the paper work is carried out and registered..... My opinion

Sounds like a system that worked.

Better sort that.

[Jacko 2154]

I dont think many of the Police would disagree with anything in this thread...

[Eagle 1662]

Sadly being in the minority with generally a poor public perception means they can get away with it.

[kwhelan 241]

with the reports of general public actually going to the police station and reporting their suspicions of said gunman at the driving range and being laughed off then having guns stolen from their own police stations and some of the stories about buy backs it doesn't install much confidence in the thin blue line to organise anything gun related. apparently it is handled differently across districts rather than nationally and they have all channeled the funding away to other areas and let the gun license depts flounder

very sorry for the poor bugger killed this week tho, very sad

[Kiwi_BMW 89]

On 6/24/2020 at 5:03 PM, B.M.W Ltd said:

Back in the day when I got my fire arms licence your guns were registered against that licence. Your property was inspected and all firearms were sold with a transfer against that licence to another holding a licence. This included private and commercial sales This system should be brought back in and policed appropriately. Online sales  should be made illegal. Pick up only after all the paper work is carried out and registered..... My opinion

Actually that system was abandoned for lifetime licenses because they system had that many errors that it actually didn't work.

The records kept were found to be something like 40% inaccurate before it was abandoned.

Even with MSSA firearms being registered (prior to being made illegal and the buyback) the records were inaccurate, I know numerous people who had legally sold or purchased MSSA firearms that when the police came around to inspect them the police records were incorrect, luckily the owners had the paperwork to show that the police records were incorrect. This didn't only happen once I know of three people who had the same problem year after year, even after having corrected the police records the first year.

Knowing that and that there were only about 20,000 registered firearms up until the Christchurch massacre, I don't know how they think they can get a database with not only 150,000+ firearms but also another 200,000+ firearms parts error free. Or how they think they can achieve that for under $100,000,000 when Canada couldn't achieve it for under 1 billion.

[Kiwi_BMW 89]

On 6/24/2020 at 9:02 PM, kwhelan said:

with the reports of general public actually going to the police station and reporting their suspicions of said gunman at the driving range and being laughed off then having guns stolen from their own police stations and some of the stories about buy backs it doesn't install much confidence in the thin blue line to organise anything gun related. apparently it is handled differently across districts rather than nationally and they have all channeled the funding away to other areas and let the gun license depts flounder

very sorry for the poor bugger killed this week tho, very sad

Actually that truth never came out either, the person that made all the claims about the gunman at the range in Dunedin fabricated everything......nothing he claimed actually happened except the gunman was a member of the club and had used the range.

That person actually ended up on the wrong side of the law and ended up having his firearms license revoked from what I understand.

If you look at history, Aramoana happened because the Police failed in their duty. The police diverted funding away from policing firearms policing and didn't remove David Greys firearms from him after he had threatened to kill a shop keeper.

And Christchurch happened because the police had again diverted funding away from firearms policing and didn't follow due process before issuing the gunman his license.

Yet the Police get off scott free in both cases and the firearms owners end up being persecuted with unnecessary law changes, and after the Christchurch massacre firearms owners were vilified by the politicians, the police, the media and the none firearms owning public due to the narrative from the media.

[M3AN 4016]

I think it's important for license holders to choose not to use "assault style" weapons, including those that imitate the aesthetics of military firearms. There's no point and it only gives ammunition (pun intended) to the anti-gun lobby.

Function over form, nobody needs to use a "scary" looking firearm and if people do it because they think it's "cool" they're missing the mark by a wide margin.

Short mag semi-automatics have a place in NZ but that place is very, very small, and in that place everything should look entirely functional and not at all intimidating. Even simple aesthetics like wooden stocks make a difference, nobody needs a FRP stock, deal with the weight, our forebearers did.

I gave up my license many years ago now because I had no ongoing need for it but I can sympathise with elements from both sides. IMHO NZ should be "gun free" insofar as only those that need a firearm for a very specific purpose should be allowed to (lawfully) own one. Edit: I do consider being an active member of a gun club to be a valid reason for ownership.

Once the supply of attractive (to criminals) weapons dries up nationally we can focus on boarder control which is actually quite easy with modern tech.

Edited August 10, 2020 by M3AN

[Eagle 1662]

The laws weren't perfect and were due for some loop hole corrections but they offered a fair balance for decades, the police failed to enforce them in this instance. People who are genuinely scared over firearm aesthetics aren't people who i consider rational or possess the knowledge to know anything on the subject besides what the media tells them, the same type people who equate what they see in the US and apply it to NZ. 

Id wager most owners have legitimate uses for a firearm, just because someone purpose doesn't align with their thinking doesn't mean it should be written off. Firearms related stats are a drop in a ocean but it's a easy group to target for a "win" when all the real issues are just too politically\financially difficult.

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

"Nobody needs" isn't any kind of argument that makes sense, the appearance of a firearm has no bearing on it's lethality. Case in point, my old SKS was not military style and had a wood stock, yet was a military rifle and continues to be used very effectively by many (mostly unconventional) forces today. The firearms community were constantly on at police to change the rules so 30 round mags had to go onto an E cat licence but police said no it's too hard, all the paperwork and the cost of changing our systems and then getting it through parliament, it can't be done... But they were happy to put huge time and effort into banning pistol grips and other "military style" features that did diddly squat to the rifles function. It was even ruled by a judge that pistol grips are a safety feature. Registration is a joke, the system in Kapiti was hopelessly inaccurate and that was only looking after 6500 firearms owners, I believe after Christchurch they did a system update and lost everyones data surnames A through to G. Nevermind the constant court cases against individuals who are illegally accessing firearms owners information.

As for AR15s, there is no better rifle for pest destruction.

I believe police need to be replaced from arms act administration. They have had a go, some things have gone ok and many more have been fluffed. Create a seperate agency so their budget can't be robbed like PNHQ was doing with their firearms budget. Let police stick to their job- policing the rules, not creating them.

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

Interesting discussion for a car forum ?

[Contrails 317]

I think it should be mandatory for a person applying towards a Gun Licence to first have a Psychologist assessment. I remember reading that this is the law in Japan (don't quote me on it). 

In saying that, judging by the amount of half evolved Chimpanzees driving on the road these days, even Vehicle licence applications should require a Psychologist and Basic hand-eye co-ordination assessment.

[Allanw 1071]

8 hours ago, Contrails said:

judging by the amount of half evolved Chimpanzees driving on the road these days, even Vehicle licence applications should require a Psychologist and Basic hand-eye co-ordination assessment.

Bare  minimum; You should be required to spell your own name correctly.

That should remove 30% of the current "drivers" from the road!

[M3AN 4016]

14 hours ago, Young Thrash Driver said:

"Nobody needs" isn't any kind of argument that makes sense, the appearance of a firearm has no bearing on it's lethality.

I agree with those statements but you've missed my point. Legitimate firearms owners can do a lot for their own cause by not stoking the fire and assault style weapons, regardless of their function, are intimidating. You're not going to get the 99% of non-owners to agree with your point of view but you can get the remaining 1% to adapt.

It may not be fair but it's pretty darn obvious what the sensible direction is. You don't need an assault style weapon to spit out a 556/223 quickly so choose something that doesn't stoke the anti-gun lobby. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by M3AN
sp

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

There is no appeasing the anti gun lobby. Their misrepresentations, rhetoric and political stirring make it clear the end game is no guns. I think you have it backwards Dave- if the public is scared, then the public needs educating. One firearms owner was paid out $1,041,000 in the confiscation, how does that make anybody safer. What licensed firearms owner has ever committed a crime with one of those scary black guns? Tarrant, who by police's own criteria ought to have been denied, and that's it. Isn't it odd, an AR15 type rifle is used to kill a policeman, it has a serial number that means it belongs to NZDF, and nobody- not the police, not any politician keen to keep us "safe", not the media, nobody- wants to say a damn thing. It tells me there is an agenda.

[M3AN 4016]

I hear you, I get you, I agree with you. I understand exactly what you're saying.

Nevertheless assault-style firearms are intimidating, we can't change that but we can change what we carry.

It's a bit like wearing a mask, you're doing it for those you're amongst, not yourself.

[kwhelan 241]

your arguing for the sake of it,  its nothing like wearing a mask,where does it stop, bit  like saying you can't own a v8 because every trip can be done in a safe economic green 4 cyl. you can't tint your windows cause its intimidating and gangsta, hell ford rangers are intimidating to other road users,

this aint a communist state... yet

[Olaf 3317]

22 hours ago, Contrails said:

I think it should be mandatory for a person applying towards a Gun Licence to first have a Psychologist assessment. I remember reading that this is the law in Japan (don't quote me on it). 

In saying that, judging by the amount of half evolved Chimpanzees driving on the road these days, even Vehicle licence applications should require a Psychologist and Basic hand-eye co-ordination assessment.

I’m picking you lack even a rudimentary understanding of Firearms Licensing in New Zealand.

[Jacko 2154]

On police frustrations.. my house got broken on the last night of Lvl 4 lockdown, when were all at home. My wife, son, dog all asleep. This guy had balls. He ran through our house grabbing laptops and tablets.

He also left his palm prints on my gate... the police forensics team turned up quick and did a really good job. They called us a week later with a name, asking if we knew him, we didnt... 

I found him on facebook, about as stereotypical as you'd expect from someone who does sh*t like this.

 

I called the police 3 weeks ago, to see if it'd had been actioned. Nothing, no progress. They said they'd call me back as it shouldve been actioned. no call back.

Its madness. I dont blame individual officers by the way, but the system is broken. This sack of sh*t will 100% be out there continuing what hes doing. 

[Contrails 317]

2 hours ago, Olaf said:

I’m picking you lack even a rudimentary understanding of Firearms Licensing in New Zealand.

Shouldn't you be asking that question to the people handing out Firearm Licences to Terrorists and Gang members like hot cakes?

There was a youtube video showing how easy it was to get a Firearm Licence in NZ just after this massacre had happened. Might have been taken off cos it was a proper caught with your pants down moment.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Contrails

[Olaf 3317]

If you’re going to criticize Firearms Legislation, or NZP, you should first understand the environment, existing laws and practice.  Without this understanding, your opinions are little more than baseless rhetoric recycled from alarmist media.

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

Remember to breathe before pulling the trigger....

 

 

 

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