Supercharger kit available? M5x engine

[Isaac1234 5]

Hey guys! First post here, was curious if anyone has a basic supercharger kit they want to sell to bolt on to my m54b30? I know theyre kits on the internet i just want too see if anyone has it here locally.

Eg - Sc14 supercharger, mounting brackets, intake elbows from supercharger, pulleys, and or silicone elbows to throttlebody. (Not looking to go water/meth injected) 

Aiming for around 300hp

On a side note anything I have to look out for?

I know ill need larger injectors will most likely go for 31lb injectors and many other things.

Tuning - piggyback, standalone or someone who can tune off the stock ecu or is it too restrictive? 

Thank you.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Isaac1234

[smiddy 76]

Have you checked out the second hand/ used units on say ebay in US?

Maybe something? Lot of work for 300hp starting for scratch.

[Isaac1234 5]

4 minutes ago, smiddy said:

Have you checked out the second hand/ used units on say ebay in US?

Maybe something? Lot of work for 300hp starting for scratch.

No i havent yet ill give it a look! Do you mean lots of work in terms of achieving that number? Or the amount of work done to support having that hp?

[smiddy 76]

Not sure on numbers, is a versatile pump, but quite large in length, runs hot, so ignition/ timing/ tuning a big thing.

Have not or ever looked, but was quite a number of bolt on, albeit left hand drive kits available in the US 10- 15 years ago for the M52TU and M54.

Would certainly save you hundreds of hours and $$ one would think.

 

[Jacko 2158]

Pretty sure I regularly see that E46 outside mitre 10 in Papakura  

 

[Sammo 2550]

@BM WORLD had proper, quality one a while back, not sure if it sold or not.

Consensus I've heard is not worth messing around with an SC14 on a 3 litre.

[Isaac1234 5]

7 hours ago, smiddy said:

Not sure on numbers, is a versatile pump, but quite large in length, runs hot, so ignition/ timing/ tuning a big thing.

Have not or ever looked, but was quite a number of bolt on, albeit left hand drive kits available in the US 10- 15 years ago for the M52TU and M54.

Would certainly save you hundreds of hours and $$ one would think.

 

Ah sweet thank you!

[Isaac1234 5]

3 hours ago, Jacko said:

Pretty sure I regularly see that E46 outside mitre 10 in Papakura  

 

Yeaaa i used to work at the toolshed 😊 was so conscious of bringing the car there haha

[Isaac1234 5]

3 hours ago, Sammo said:

@BM WORLD had proper, quality one a while back, not sure if it sold or not.

Consensus I've heard is not worth messing around with an SC14 on a 3 litre.

Oh okay, interesting what have other people said about using it?

[The H. Behemoth 55]

Hey, here is some input from experience. All this will depend on your power goals and how much power you start with. In your case, If you are set on the SC14, you can typically get 280-320 HP at the crank with a proper tune at around 8 PSI from most M52B28 engines. The Penguin Pools NZ race car used the M54B30 engine with the HMW V2 SC14 Kit and saw over 330WHP 3 years ago, and the American Endurance race cars saw well over 400rwhp with the S52B32 build engine in 2017. You can get a little bit more with the M90 (they are both the same size, the M90 is tri lobed so 10-15% more efficient) but those units are hard to come by.  They are all roots blowers and will give a linear torque curve unlike anything else, But I would not push a stock engine past 300.

Go with 36lbs or 42lbs injectors. The ECU you have is likely the MS43 (if you are lucky) otherwise its a MS45, both can be flashed by a good tuner. Its all in the tune. 

Keep reading through the forced induction section of this forum, you will find enough information, all the best with your project.

[dirtydoogle 383]

You would have to overdrive the piss out of an SC14 to get close to 8psi at reasonable rpm on an engine that size  

It's not worth the hassle on an m54b30

[The H. Behemoth 55]

23 hours ago, dirtydoogle said:

You would have to overdrive the piss out of an SC14 to get close to 8psi at reasonable rpm on an engine that size  

It's not worth the hassle on an m54b30

Hi Doug, I wouldn't be too dismissive. Having seen a few hundread installations that typically are setup to make 8PSi or more...and these having run on 3.2L Engines that have been in enough races. The M54B30 is nothing special apart from having 15mm longer headbolts. The M90 is the same size as the SC14? A lot of factors come into play, and a M122H that produces 600+ HP on a 5.8L Ford modular engine is 2L.

A lot of factors come into play and for a mesely 300HP at the crank, I would not invest my money on anything but a M62 (1L) or SC14. The M90's would cost and arm and a leg. An SC14 with a 80mm pulley will be all you need for 8PSI +.

Here are some maths, you can input your values as you go. Hope that helps and do whatever works best for you.

======================================

Calculating Engine Liters/min @ 0 Psi

Formula: Liters x RPM / 2 = Liter of Air/Min at 0 psi (N/A Motor)

Multiply engine capacity (in liters) times maximum engine Rpm.

2.8 liters x 7000 rpm = 19600 liters/minute.

Divide this figure by 2 as engine only fills every second stroke.

So,

19600 / 2 = 9800 liter of air/min on a naturally aspired M52B28.
Calculating Boost Ratio

Add the boost pressure desired (5 Psi) for the engine to 14.7 Psi (atmospheric pressure).

5 psi +14.7 psi = 19.7 psi

Divide this answer by 14.7 and this gives the boost pressure ratio. (21.7/14.7=1.476) This is the boost pressure ratio above atmospheric pressure.

19.7 psi / 14.7 = 1.34
 Calculating Actual Air Requirements at Desired Boost

Multiply the boost ratio by the liters/minute obtained for 0 Psi and you get the actual air requirements in Liters/min for the engine at that boost. In our example this is

9800 liters/min X 1.34 = 13132 liters/min
Often the question arises if the SC14 is adequate for the 2.8L or even 3L M3’s, They flow more air(1.4L) vs the Eaton M62(1L), and we will be doing some calculations to decide on the correct size of supercharger for your car, you need to know:-

1. The swept volume per revolution of the supercharger. (Eaton M62 1 litre/rev, SC14 from a 1G-GZE 1.4 litres/rev)
2. The maximum continuous safe operating speed for the supercharger. (Eaton M62 14000 rpm continuous, Toyota SC14 12000 rpm??)
3. The maximum pressure that can be safely produced by the supercharger continuously. eg. Eaton M62 = 12 psi, Toyota SC14 = 10Psi(? Beyond that Teflon on rotors melts?)
Calculating Supercharger Rotor Speed

Divide the desired air flow (13132L/min) by the swept volume of the supercharger (SC14 from the 1G-GZE is 1.42 litres per revolution). This will tell you the maximum speed the supercharger rotors must be run at to produce the volume required.

13132 / 1.42 = 9248
Calculating Pulley Size Ratio

Divide the rotor Rpm by maximum desired engine rpm to get the drive ratio of the pulleys. For an SC14 on a 2800cc @ 5psi boost the desired supercharger pulley ratio is

9248 / 7000 rpm = 1.32  Pulley Size Ratio

With an 4″ (103mm) Pulley on the supercharger the size of the crank pulley for this ratio would be

1.32x 4 = 5.28”
Note: M52B28 Crankshaft Pulley is around 6” or 152mm, the SC14 differs between 115mm and 125mm, We are using a 103mm pulley.)

Final Calculations

Pulley Size Ratio –> 6″ (crank pulley) / 4″ (SC14 pulley) = 1.5
Max SC14 RPM –> 1.5 (Pulley Size Ratio) x 7000 (Max Engine RPM) = 10500 RPM
Air output with 6″ Crank Pulley –> 1.42(SC14 Displacement) x 10500(Max SC14 RPM) = 14910cc

Boost Ratio –> 14910 / 9800 = 1.52

Max PSI Boost –> 1.52 x 14.7 = 22.34 – 14.7 = 7.6 PSI at 7000RPM or 5PSI at 6000RPM – both using the 4” (103mm) Pulley.

===========================================

Edited September 11, 2021 by The H. Behemoth

[zero 1162]

Gets popcorn

[dirtydoogle 383]

Boost is a measure of restriction. The sc14 set up I put together was frankly mediocre, and rightly so. They never did much when retro fitted to a 4age, so expectations were low on a b28. 

[leichtbau 525]

God I miss being a mod. I would just ban this moron and his previous accounts.

[dirtydoogle 383]

7 minutes ago, leichtbau said:

God I miss being a mod. I would just ban this moron and his previous accounts.

Tis all fun and games, if an m52 consumed 9800L/min it should be making 450-500hp N/A 

Luckily engines don't work that efficiently. 

An m50/52 oem head will flow a theoretical 235cfm/6650L/m at max valve lift. 

And it doesn't spend much time at max valve lift, hence the 190ish crank hp from factory, which would equate to around 3800L/m actual air consumption 

Even these are relatively rough numbers, the reality is spinning an sc14 (which are diabolical inefficient) nice and fast on an m52b28 is unlikely to push much over 160wkw 

[M3AN 4016]

19 hours ago, leichtbau said:

God I miss being a mod. I would just ban this moron and his previous accounts.

Why?

This "moron" successfully designed and produced SC's for multiple successful boosted M5x engines. A bunch of BS righteous pricks gave him a hard time for no good reason and he politely persisted and proved said righteous pricks wrong, I'm not sure if you were one of them.

I'm not saying the maths above are right or wrong, most of it is above my simple scan but Hyde has proven his SC's work when many said he couldn't do it, you can't dispute the evidence.

Edit: and ffs, it simply looks like he's trying to help here, isn't that what forums are for? If you don't agree with his advice that's fine, just don't say it's wrong without providing the necessary adjustments or corrections.

Edited September 12, 2021 by M3AN

[BreakMyWindow 1878]

Have to lean towards moronic.

 

The e36 328i @The H. Behemoth sold to a friend @LemonHunter had one particularly interesting modification carried out. That was a VTA catch can spraying oil droplets over the front suspension brakes. The engine (which had low compression) also showed signs of "quality" workmanship too. 

 

 

[zero 1162]

He also threatened posters and their families.

He also threatened a terror attack on nz through his blog.

Hes been banned from so many forums for the same behaviour that I really think his supercharger pursuits are less important than how he treats others.

[M3AN 4016]

46 minutes ago, zero said:

He also threatened posters and their families.

He also threatened a terror attack on nz through his blog.

Hes been banned from so many forums for the same behaviour that I really think his supercharger pursuits are less important than how he treats others.

If you genuinely believe anyone is threatening terrorist activity then you have a social obligation to advise the police, that's really important for all of our safety.

I'm not aware of any of these off-site actions or accusations so can't speak to their veracity. What we do know is that personal attacks are against Bimmersport rules, that includes calling anyone a moron, or bringing bad blood that may exist in other realities to this forum. Rules can't be selectively applied if they're to have any claim to credibility.

 

[The H. Behemoth 55]

Dear friends, Its amusing and interesting, So much hate and so much misinformation, tall tales and even lies. Monty Python would be proud and one can certainly reach the yellow press with such. In the end I can only wish some of you the very best.

I must respond and say, last I checked this 'moron' was on the German newspapers and was meeting the mayor of the city for his contributions: https://wilih.de/neu-stuttgarter-spendet-10-000-einwegmasken  - These days hes hanging out with some higher ups at some very big companies in the automotive sector and I heard his company has gone international worth a few million and 6 branches around the world.  Last I checked his company was one of the 7 in the world doing what they did. Things crazy morons do.

He even gave away a car above to a Charlie from Christchurch whose a member of this forum and he can confirm the false story above, he had run the car low on oil (after a 1200KM Drive back to South Island) and he confirmed it, and he still had a year time to pay. Dont know many people doing that.  

I must forward this topic to the former director of the MB Kompressor department, so that moron who lives 2 houses away from him, can sit down over a nice evening and have a laugh and remind themselves that the Eaton was only the second option as the original choice was the German designed and lisenced by Ogura SC14 (Wankel AG - https://www.wankel-ag.de/seite1_e.html) and was not an option due to low manufacturing capacity (Toyota buying them all up)

 

Back on topic,

We all should respect the beliefs others have, but science is science and has no place but facts. Below are the lowest numbers seen this year. Before and After.

Much love and warm regards.

[The H. Behemoth 55]

7 minutes ago, M3AN said:

If you genuinely believe anyone is threatening terrorist activity then you have a social obligation to advise the police, that's really important for all of our safety.

I'm not aware of any of these off-site actions or accusations so can't speak to their veracity. What we do know is that personal attacks are against Bimmersport rules, that includes calling anyone a moron, or bringing bad blood that may exist in other realities to this forum. Rules can't be selectively applied if they're to have any claim to credibility.

 

 

Applying virtual power is one thing, however In Germany, there is a law about slandering ones reputation, last I checked the 30 million euro insurance covers the company and the owner. Future accusations from them may result in a lawsuit one may not be able to afford.

Thanks for being fair, just and reasonable in the face of ignorance and hate. Should you ever be around these parts, some beers await. 😀

 

On 9/11/2021 at 1:55 PM, leichtbau said:

God I miss being a mod. I would just ban this moron and his previous accounts.

Topic Printed.
Abuse of power is one thing, slander another. Even using words like that, you are just a signature away from legal, do take notes. have a great day.

Edited September 13, 2021 by The H. Behemoth

[Michael. 2313]

Alright then. 

[polley 916]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:33 PM, The H. Behemoth said:

Hey, here is some input from experience. All this will depend on your power goals and how much power you start with. In your case, If you are set on the SC14, you can typically get 280-320 HP at the crank with a proper tune at around 8 PSI from most M52B28 engines. The Penguin Pools NZ race car used the M54B30 engine with the HMW V2 SC14 Kit and saw over 330WHP 3 years ago, and the American Endurance race cars saw well over 400rwhp with the S52B32 build engine in 2017. You can get a little bit more with the M90 (they are both the same size, the M90 is tri lobed so 10-15% more efficient) but those units are hard to come by.  They are all roots blowers and will give a linear torque curve unlike anything else, But I would not push a stock engine past 300.

Go with 36lbs or 42lbs injectors. The ECU you have is likely the MS43 (if you are lucky) otherwise its a MS45, both can be flashed by a good tuner. Its all in the tune. 

Keep reading through the forced induction section of this forum, you will find enough information, all the best with your project.

No the penguin pools drift car used a m52tub28. It still runs the same engine but now with a turbo. 

Superchargers were a consumable item, to the point it was hard to find good ones as spares.

It went reasonably well, but its of my opinion the SC14 is just too small for what's expected of it on these engines, so lifespan is greatly shortened. The mounting of the supercharger bracket was a bit flimsy as well, I had concerns about it but it never gave any trouble. The SC14 is bit of a tight bit trying to jam it between the alternator and intake manifold - not that there is much else options, but it makes the inlet manifold to the supercharger and the rest of the plumbing bit of a nightmare.

Edited September 14, 2021 by polley

[BreakMyWindow 1878]

15 hours ago, The H. Behemoth said:

Dear friends, Its amusing and interesting, So much hate and so much misinformation, tall tales and even lies. Monty Python would be proud and one can certainly reach the yellow press with such. In the end I can only wish some of you the very best.

I must respond and say, last I checked this 'moron' was on the German newspapers and was meeting the mayor of the city for his contributions: https://wilih.de/neu-stuttgarter-spendet-10-000-einwegmasken  - These days hes hanging out with some higher ups at some very big companies in the automotive sector and I heard his company has gone international worth a few million and 6 branches around the world.  Last I checked his company was one of the 7 in the world doing what they did. Things crazy morons do.

He even gave away a car above to a Charlie from Christchurch whose a member of this forum and he can confirm the false story above, he had run the car low on oil (after a 1200KM Drive back to South Island) and he confirmed it, and he still had a year time to pay. Dont know many people doing that.  

I must forward this topic to the former director of the MB Kompressor department, so that moron who lives 2 houses away from him, can sit down over a nice evening and have a laugh and remind themselves that the Eaton was only the second option as the original choice was the German designed and lisenced by Ogura SC14 (Wankel AG - https://www.wankel-ag.de/seite1_e.html) and was not an option due to low manufacturing capacity (Toyota buying them all up)

 

Back on topic,

We all should respect the beliefs others have, but science is science and has no place but facts. Below are the lowest numbers seen this year. Before and After.

Much love and warm regards.