Rising fuel prices. What now? Diesel? Hybrid?

[qube 3570]

With petrol prices expected to continue rising, are people considering alternative vehicles? Maybe a cheaper to run daily or complete change to an electric or hybrid or maybe a diesel instead of petrol bmw?

Curious to hear everyones thoughts if anyone has made a move or planning or thinking about it. 
 

Not many good bmw hybrid options, maybe something diesel, or possibly alternative brands?

Side question - thoughts on running 91 on bmws? Something economic but newish like a 116/320 or similar, not a performance or sports model or anything.
 

 

[Eagle 1662]

Bicycle 

Edit: I was serious. Obviously its situational and distance dependent but i save about 1-1.5k on fuel + all the other running costs when biking 16km per day, 4 days per week.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Eagle

[aja540i 1906]

1 hour ago, qube said:

With petrol prices expected to continue rising, are people considering alternative vehicles? Maybe a cheaper to run daily or complete change to an electric or hybrid or maybe a diesel instead of petrol bmw?

Curious to hear everyones thoughts if anyone has made a move or planning or thinking about it. 
 

Not many good bmw hybrid options, maybe something diesel, or possibly alternative brands?

Side question - thoughts on running 91 on bmws? Something economic but newish like a 116/320 or similar, not a performance or sports model or anything.
 

 

Get a Leaf!

 

[Breaker 980]

Or a Tesla 😉

Seriously while I love my V8s, EV is the cheapest best daily option today.
Would run 91 if it was advised by a manufacturer. All BMWs are 95 at least that I’m aware of.

Plug in Hybrid is probably the best mix, 330e seems a good option for one size fits all for most people. Ultimately limited options, give it a few more years and those models coming on stream now will filter through.

I personally have a problem with diesel emissions so that’s not for me. But I get why they are a good option for a lot of people today still.

[wrs 120]

Stick with fossil fuels. All electric vehicles in NZ are currently running on coal. Until new renewable generation is built all shortfall in power in NZ is provided by coal. Even if all current electric vehicles are removed from NZ roads we still need coal to fill the gap.

EV's worldwide are currently just marketing hype. Until true renewables are available to power EV's they nearly all run on fossil fuel as that's where the power is ultimately generated from.

The cost to run them may be better but what's the overall environmental cost?

I like EV's and will eventually change to one but until the truth about where the power comes from is common knowledge and power is made from renewable resources (not coal) to power them we're better off sticking with petrol/diesel. I think it's only a number of years until electric is viable and better for the environment but until more renewable energy comes online in NZ coal is the source of power for EV's.

[aja540i 1906]

37 minutes ago, wrs said:

Stick with fossil fuels. All electric vehicles in NZ are currently running on coal. Until new renewable generation is built all shortfall in power in NZ is provided by coal. Even if all current electric vehicles are removed from NZ roads we still need coal to fill the gap.

EV's worldwide are currently just marketing hype. Until true renewables are available to power EV's they nearly all run on fossil fuel as that's where the power is ultimately generated from.

The cost to run them may be better but what's the overall environmental cost?

I like EV's and will eventually change to one but until the truth about where the power comes from is common knowledge and power is made from renewable resources (not coal) to power them we're better off sticking with petrol/diesel. I think it's only a number of years until electric is viable and better for the environment but until more renewable energy comes online in NZ coal is the source of power for EV's.

Not 100% true, mine is charged by power from the solar panels on my roof, which were manufactured in a factory in China powered by the tears of slave laborers ( or something similar)

[wrs 120]

😊

Likewise, have 6.2kW solar panels but wonder if they're better or worse than if they weren't there. So hard to tell what's real and perceived...

 

[qube 3570]

3 hours ago, Eagle said:

Bicycle 

Edit: I was serious. Obviously its situational and distance dependent but i save about 1-1.5k on fuel + all the other running costs when biking 16km per day, 4 days per week.

Sorry, I did take it as a joke but you are right, it is definitely a viable option for some.

Unfortunately I drive long distance to and from work every day about 70 kms return but aside from that I do a fair bit of driving in weekends and sometimes evenings which all require a vehicle so for me not an option.

I would use public transport to and from work if I could but its not only expensive, but takes a long time due to the transfer from bus to train vice versa, it would take me twice as long if not more, as driving.

[wrs 120]

I'm currently trying to buy a rural property 51km out of town. If I'm successful I'll be going off-grid as no power is available nearby. I already have a 128kWh battery system and will purchase 26.4kW of solar panels for worst-case winter months. For about 50% of the year I'd have excess power to charge an EV to get to work. I work at ABB and they offer free electric car charging (from coal) so I'd get one way free but likely have to top-up from solar at home for the total round trip (eg; Leaf II). If I went EV I'd need to increase the solar array size for winter months - without calculating the requirement I'd guess at about 50% increase to 39.6kW (about another $8.4k + inverters $2k)...

Bimmer would be parked up in the garage for weekend special trips only...

Edited January 5, 2022 by wrs

[qube 3570]

This is all interesting stuff about the coal powering the EVs etc.

Does anyone have much experience or knowledge on hybrids? (Not necessarily BMW, could be like a Toyota or Lexus hybrid for example)

 

[Cement 873]

1 hour ago, wrs said:

All electric vehicles in NZ are currently running on coal

I always thought the majority of NZ power is generated from renewable resources, wikipedia states 82%. Not sure if geography plays a part as to where your power comes from specifically ... from memory generation in the South Island could not be transferred over Cook Strait at any higher level than it is currently etc.

[wrs 120]

Not much experience but the limited exposure I've had put them at the best compromise. You get significantly enhanced fuel economy without needing coal... Likely the best option for the next 5 years at least.

[lord_jagganath 421]

2 hours ago, Cement said:

I always thought the majority of NZ power is generated from renewable resources, wikipedia states 82%. 

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-statistics-and-modelling/energy-statistics/electricity-statistics/ 

you are roughly accurate, also Manapouri hydropower is about 5GWh per annum, which is  distorts the figure, as it supplies 15% of the country's hydro power to a single south island source.  

 

personally, i do not mind running the activehybrid5 as a daily, even though I feed it 150 dollars of 100plus fuel every 3-4 weeks (depending on usage load, the more social I am, the fewer weeks)

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by lord_jagganath
words

[lord_jagganath 421]

6 hours ago, qube said:

Not many good bmw hybrid options, maybe something diesel, or possibly alternative brands?

Maybe for diesel, considering the KMs you do, a Skoda may actually be worth checking out? when I last DD'd VW Group diesel, it barely warmed up, but that was me and my 34km round trip, you may actually make it make sense. 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/skoda/octavia/listing/3416185636?bof=qJwblWO1 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/skoda/octavia/listing/3342143930?bof=qJwblWO1

 

[nick496 268]

Ended up getting a leaf, and it's the perfect around town vehicle for me. E30 for out of town weekend trips (if its not on stands). 

Went and had a look at hybrids with a mate the other week, as he wants something that can go the distance. 

The most interesting one we looked at was a Nissan note. https://www.trademe.co.nz/3199079352

Which was basically a leaf power train, but instead of having a battery, it had a 3 cylinder petrol producing electricity for the electric motor to drive the wheels. 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Something the government is keeping very much on the down low is the introduction of RUC on electric vehicles. Currently there is an “exemption” for these vehicles, but this is only for a period of time (and most unlikely to be extended again) and then the charges will be payable.

This, along with how much you are paying for your electricity, will make a big difference in your calculations.

[Breaker 980]

12 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Something the government is keeping very much on the down low is the introduction of RUC on electric vehicles. Currently there is an “exemption” for these vehicles, but this is only for a period of time (and most unlikely to be extended again) and then the charges will be payable.

This, along with how much you are paying for your electricity, will make a big difference in your calculations.

It will be very interesting how they tackle this, with plug in hybrids able to run EV only, taxing petrol becomes irrelevant for the EV ks. It feels like a reduction of petrol tax and a across the board ruc program would be the only real fair fix. Would take a balsy government to change that in the near future, and they only ever look at the current term 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Very true, the whole RUC system is very inflexible and hard to apply across many electric vehicles and there are so many different types of EV, full battery, plug-in hybrid, hybrid, Range extender, etc. 

Really needs a complete review, but I’ll be surprised if that happens in time, so it’ll be another square peg bashed into a round hole.

[gjm 3258]

1 hour ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Something the government is keeping very much on the down low is the introduction of RUC on electric vehicles. Currently there is an “exemption” for these vehicles, but this is only for a period of time (and most unlikely to be extended again) and then the charges will be payable.

It has to happen. NZTA build and maintain the major roads, and funding for that is (theoretically) from vehicle use taxation. Petrol at the pump; diesel in RUCs. Many manufacturers are ending development and even production of ICEs, effectively cutting off the finances for roads.

I wonder if EVs are 'easier' on roads than ICE vehicles? 🤔

20 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Very true, the whole RUC system is very inflexible and hard to apply across many electric vehicles and there are so many different types of EV, full battery, plug-in hybrid, hybrid, Range extender, etc. 

Really needs a complete review, but I’ll be surprised if that happens in time, so it’ll be another square peg bashed into a round hole.

DERV RUCs are a rort. If you are legal, you pay the same in a car as you would for a significantly larger vehicle.
If you are an 'orrible, tricky, not-at-all-bovvered-about-the-law type, you'll have found a way to 'slow' distance accumulation on your odo.

Don't know what the answer is on that. Put it on fuel, and it unfairly penalises those who exclusively use a vehicle offroad (already applies with petrol); apply RUCs to petrol engines and while that eases the offroad bill (farmer's quads etc, and accompanying paperwork involved in recovering tax) it opens up the increased possibility of illegal vehicle operation.

The UK has a partial solution - red diesel. It takes very little even in a mix of red and normal diesel to dye the injectors; if your injectors are coloured and you are using the vehicle (inappropriately licensed) on the road, you're in a lot of trouble. Diesel at the pump is taxed the same as petrol, and any tax recovery is the responsibility of the user.

[KwS 2425]

14 hours ago, wrs said:

Stick with fossil fuels. All electric vehicles in NZ are currently running on coal. Until new renewable generation is built all shortfall in power in NZ is provided by coal. Even if all current electric vehicles are removed from NZ roads we still need coal to fill the gap.

EV's worldwide are currently just marketing hype. Until true renewables are available to power EV's they nearly all run on fossil fuel as that's where the power is ultimately generated from.

The cost to run them may be better but what's the overall environmental cost?

I like EV's and will eventually change to one but until the truth about where the power comes from is common knowledge and power is made from renewable resources (not coal) to power them we're better off sticking with petrol/diesel. I think it's only a number of years until electric is viable and better for the environment but until more renewable energy comes online in NZ coal is the source of power for EV's.

Who cares? The thread is about cheaper running, not feeling good about where the fuel comes from (in which case you wouldnt be running fossil fuel either, get a bike). This argument always comes up whenever someone recommends an EV, just like people flogging the whole "but Hydrogen isnt green so its a waste of time" when people talk about the potential for Hydrogen FCVs.

91 octane is a false economy too, most cars get better fuel economy on higher octane... so with 91 you spend less to get less KM per tank.

[gjm 3258]

1 hour ago, KwS said:

just like people flogging the whole "but Hydrogen isnt green so its a waste of time" when people talk about the potential for Hydrogen FCVs.

I genuinely think that is the way forward. Whether it is a hydrogen ICE-type solution, or using hydrogen as a fuel cell.

And that will be an economic answer. Anyone can build something at home to release hydrogen from water and while those designs are unlikely to be commercially viable it does demonstrate the potential.

But for now... The choice isn't simple. A hybrid? A diesel? Or just buy an economical car? We get 13.6km per litre from our E46 318i.

[balancerider 758]

4 hours ago, gjm said:

I wonder if EVs are 'easier' on roads than ICE vehicles? 🤔

DERV RUCs are a rort.

1. Doubtful given the average (electric) SUV is about 2300kg!

2. Agree completely.

Edited January 6, 2022 by balancerider

[tawa 150]

Purchased a E70 xDrive35 last year, $200 to fill will comfortably get me 600km...

So I've been considering this very issue frequently, and using my motorcycle where possible, which gets about twice the km/L.

I think the reducing the kms travelled is the biggest difference you can make. Not an option for everyone obviously, but with working form home options becoming more of a thing after covid that certainly helps, and just planning trips wisely...

[dirtydoogle 383]

We have a very high km Camry Hybrid for around town duties. It's comfortable and quiet, does the job. Very easy on the wallet

I run a 406 diesel at the moment as a commuter, and at 4.5L/100km is about as much CO2 as a purely coal powered EV (which isn't even a reality anyway) 

Our family car is a Lexus gs430, not particularly green.

The old British cars in the shed are broken and the mx5 gets driven a couple times a year. 

 

The junky old Pug has paid for itself in a very short time over commuting in the Lexus. 

[treone 648]

Genuine question - is there any benefit of a hybrid for long distance travel? eg a 1000km return trip?

i do several trips a year from wellington to whakatane in a v8. Cost doesn't deter me but after just doing 1800kms in less than two weeks got me thinking this same thing - diesel or hybrid?

Something that is comfortable, practical and fuel efficient and not just the home to work, work to home commute. And fulfill fishing duties 😎. An X5? Ford Everest/Territory? Izusu ‘u-x? Hokden Trailblazer? Kia Sorento?

Sorry EV, you’re out for now 🤣

Edited January 6, 2022 by treone