Rising fuel prices. What now? Diesel? Hybrid?

[GorGasm 563]

9 hours ago, coop said:

With the exception of maybe Invercargill, there are no sustainable cities. 

Even a 4 bed in Te Kuiti or Tokoroa you'll struggle to pick up something for under $400k. 

Those who push the working from home angle, if you can do it, then there is a possibility someone in India can at a fraction of your pay check.

I agree that there's very few if any affordable locations in NZ anymore.  But for sustainability I was meaning more around the issues of poor design that have compromised the cities.  Specifically in Auckland poor infrastructure, poor land usage, council bloat, overpopulation, lack of transport.  Very tough or maybe impossible issues to solve.  Spread some of the load to other cities to allow them to grow, alleviate some of the pressure.

For off shoring.  Sometimes yes, often no.  Depends on the job and the company ethos.

Issues with offshoring:

• Poor communication skills.
• Culture clash.
• Time zone issues.
• Outcome quality.
• Other stuff...

Edited January 7, 2022 by GorGasm

[GorGasm 563]

9 hours ago, KwS said:

Yeah thats not going to happen, my job is specific to the company I work for, so not like I can just go somewhere else. Same with my Wife.

Public transport is also a have. It needs to be more reliable, available and cheaper. At the moment its cheaper to drive, I get free parking at work, and I dont have to worry about some drongo with covid/rabies licking me on the train/bus. There is also no direct train link from the hutt valley to porirua, so thats out.

I will go PHEV once I can afford to, just because most of my commute can be done on EV alone, but i still have the range if i want to take a trip up the country and not have to piss around charging it. Hydrogen is the future I hope for though, along with synthetic petrol replacements so I can keep running classic cars.

Not saying that everyone can or should do it.  But what if you could live within 5km of both of your jobs allowing you to walk or scooter or something? 

Edited January 7, 2022 by GorGasm

[Michael. 2313]

15 hours ago, GorGasm said:

 

NZ society needs to stop commuting for work in passenger vehicles.  It's a colossal waste of time and resources.  I used to spend 2.5 hours a day in Auckland traffic and spend $150 a week in petrol and I now do the same job remotely and live less than 1 km from all essential services 

So basically people shouldn't travel around and only get hired for jobs within a small distance of their home, tough luck if theres no work in the area? You might have got lucky but its far from typical, especially given the layout of Auckland city. 

If someone wants to work 20km from where they live that's their choice & maybe the only option, they shouldnt be told it's bad or not allowed because of time and resource use.

Every human activity uses resources. If there's going to be a discussion on not wasting time and resources for whatever reason for people going to work and such then there should also be no holidays, no sports tournaments, concerts or any other large human activity. You could go on and on. Think of all the resources and time we could save! 

[GorGasm 563]

Perhaps I should reword it.  What if your work could be less that 5km from your home?  Sure people should still be allowed to live and commute however they see fit but they shouldn't have to.  When I lived in Auckland I couldn't afford to live close to my office, I had to buy my first house 20+km away, I would gladly have purchased a place which would have reduced my commute.  Looking back perhaps I should have bought an apartment, but I've been conditioned to want a 3 bed standalone house with land attached.

I also specifically mentioned commuting for work purposes.  Save the traveling for recreation activities that you want to do, that shouldn't have to change.  What I'm suggesting is reducing the travel time and expense for productive activity.  In doing this you either have better productivity, more personal time, or more efficiency, or a combination of all three.

If everyone was able to save $100 on their weekly travel costs, that could potentially be fed straight back into more productive retail business.

Edited January 8, 2022 by GorGasm

[*Glenn* 854]

We are averaging 800KM on 40 litres of 91 in my wife’s 2021 Hybrid Jazz e:HEV

[polley 916]

20 hours ago, aja540i said:

There isn't a single street in the country where the gas station is up to the task of everybody trying to fill their car at once.

Its a bit of a pointless argument as there is no scenario where everybody in the country will plug their car in at the same time, mine uses about the same amount of power to charge as boiling the jug or cooking some toast, and I don't HAVE to charge it every day.

As for the commercial users, hydrogen will take care of most of that. (Eventually!)

 

Must be slow as f**k to charge if it only draws 10 amps. A decent charger will draw 30 amps. Consider the average house is only supplied with 60 amps. If you come home, plug in your shopping trolley, have the heat pump on, turn the oven on to do some cooking etc, you're pretty much maxed out.

[Michael. 2313]

32 minutes ago, polley said:

Must be slow as f**k to charge if it only draws 10 amps. A decent charger will draw 30 amps. Consider the average house is only supplied with 60 amps. If you come home, plug in your shopping trolley, have the heat pump on, turn the oven on to do some cooking etc, you're pretty much maxed out.

Definitely one way to max our your at home power supply haha. I wonder what it looks like when the whole neighborhood is doing the same thing mid winter (if everyone had an electric car in that scenario)

On that note of chargers, I was shocked a how slow most of the typical at home chargers are, definitely require overnight charging which means long hours of unattended charging. In some instances I've read it's suggested for electric cars to not be left unattended while charging or parked inside garages at home out of safety concerns. (There area already some apartment complexes and underground garages that don't allow electric cars to park inside due to the fire risk and the potential insurance headaches etc)

Of course no one is going to watch their electric car charge all night for safety concerns with this weak sauce at home chargers, Obvious not the intention but it's not like people fill their cars up with petrol without watching, in fact they are fully involved in the whole process (which takes 2-3 minutes) and there are various safety aids in case anything goes wrong. Obvious given the materials involved on both car types, all have inherent risks, nothing is completely safe.  

Time will tell how all this plays out when thousands more electric cars are added to the market in the coming years. The numbers are still tiny so hard to see any actual trends yet.  

[aja540i 1906]

51 minutes ago, polley said:

Must be slow as f**k to charge if it only draws 10 amps. A decent charger will draw 30 amps. Consider the average house is only supplied with 60 amps. If you come home, plug in your shopping trolley, have the heat pump on, turn the oven on to do some cooking etc, you're pretty much maxed out.

Yep, it takes all night, I don't care, it's full in the morning when I need it!! I can use the wall box to top it up quickly if I need to, or use a free fast charge point that I drive past every day, options!! 😉 

[aja540i 1906]

3 minutes ago, Michael. said:

Definitely one way to max our your at home power supply haha. I wonder what it looks like when the whole neighborhood is doing the same thing mid winter (if everyone had an electric car in that scenario)

On that note of chargers, I was shocked a how slow most of the typical at home chargers are, definitely require overnight charging which means long hours of unattended charging. In some instances I've read it's suggested for electric cars to not be left unattended while charging or parked inside garages at home out of safety concerns. (There area already some apartment complexes and underground garages that don't allow electric cars to park inside due to the fire risk and the potential insurance headaches etc)

Of course no one is going to watch their electric car charge all night for safety concerns with this weak sauce at home chargers, Obvious not the intention but it's not like people fill their cars up with petrol without watching, in fact they are fully involved in the whole process (which takes 2-3 minutes) and there are various safety aids in case anything goes wrong. Obvious given the materials involved on both car types, all have inherent risks, nothing is completely safe.  

Time will tell how all this plays out when thousands more electric cars are added to the market in the coming years. The numbers are still tiny so hard to see any actual trends yet.  

The "charger" that most people talk about is not a charger at all, it is an adaptor that connects the charger built into the car to the mains power supply in a safe way. Proper ones monitor things like the capacity of the supply, and get info from the car to make sure nothing goes wrong. Of course there will be occasions when people don't do things properly and sh1t happens, but that is also true of petrol stations!! 

[KwS 2425]

2 hours ago, *Glenn* said:

We are averaging 800KM on 40 litres of 91 in my wife’s 2021 Hybrid Jazz e:HEV

Im tempted to upgrade to one of these, its a shame there is no PHEV option as that would tick every box for us.

[KwS 2425]

4 hours ago, GorGasm said:

What if your work could be less that 5km from your home?

Thats a dream world. Maybe if you were single and prepared to live in a busy cbd in an apartment (ugh yuck to both) but the chances of both people in a household working within 5km of home? ha!

[Michael. 2313]

10 hours ago, GorGasm said:

Not saying that everyone can or should do it.  But what if you could live within 5km of both of your jobs allowing you to walk or scooter or something? 

Seemed to work fine in the Hunger Games! Stay in your district!! 

[tawa 150]

Regarding infrastructure, it could be of benefit for Distributed Generation, having potential storage at point of consumption and possibly generation there too, or at least having controllable loads to smooth the consumption curve and charge direct from DG during surplus production.

2 hours ago, KwS said:

Thats a dream world. Maybe if you were single and prepared to live in a busy cbd in an apartment (ugh yuck to both) but the chances of both people in a household working within 5km of home? ha!

Just managed to get mine within 5km (by walking trail), now the buggers are planning to shift it an extra 20km away through major traffic... Now what? Build new again, look for other employment? Hopefully I'll get some working from home options...

[Blackie 510]

Car events sure have moved with the times. Hope he got home.

[HalfJobHarry 106]

On 1/5/2022 at 6:07 PM, qube said:

With petrol prices expected to continue rising, are people considering alternative vehicles? Maybe a cheaper to run daily or complete change to an electric or hybrid or maybe a diesel instead of petrol bmw?

Curious to hear everyones thoughts if anyone has made a move or planning or thinking about it. 
 

Not many good bmw hybrid options, maybe something diesel, or possibly alternative brands?

Side question - thoughts on running 91 on bmws? Something economic but newish like a 116/320 or similar, not a performance or sports model or anything.
 

 

Any of the regular BMWs are more than happy on 91...

The massive price of petrol in the UK drove a BIG BIG change to diesels (i'd say more cars were diesel than petrol when I left back in 2016). Don't know if that will happen here with the 'perceived' expense of RUC...

[gjm 3258]

22 minutes ago, HalfJobHarry said:

The massive price of petrol in the UK drove a BIG BIG change to diesels (i'd say more cars were diesel than petrol when I left back in 2016). Don't know if that will happen here with the 'perceived' expense of RUC...

Price of diesel in the UK rose very dramatically in response to the increased number of diesel vehicles. This was driven by the fuel companies and based on 2 main criteria - first, profit (well, no surprise there!), and second - diesel for automotive use was made as a cheap by-production of petroleum distillation. Increased demand meant insufficient supply from that source, and required a dedicated production process.

Anyone else notice that the price of 91 petrol has increased by 10c per litre since a week or two before Christmas?

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Yes they will run on 91, and quite happily, but the fuel consumption does increase versus 95 or 98. It will vary from model to model and also driving style, complex to calculate which is cheaper.

The big driver for diesel cars in UK was the vehicle license (rego equivalent) being based on CO2 emissions, so lots of smaller Diesel engined cars had zero or very low cost each year.

Which lead to the increased demand gjm mentioned above, and then the increase in price.

RUC in NZ does skew the cost calculations a lot.

[Sammo 2544]

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/mg/mgb/listing/3418092402?bof=y30EdYqw

Electric MGB, that 120km range 'depending how you drive'  though haha

[HalfJobHarry 106]

3 hours ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Yes they will run on 91, and quite happily, but the fuel consumption does increase versus 95 or 98. It will vary from model to model and also driving style, complex to calculate which is cheaper.

The big driver for diesel cars in UK was the vehicle license (rego equivalent) being based on CO2 emissions, so lots of smaller Diesel engined cars had zero or very low cost each year.

Which lead to the increased demand gjm mentioned above, and then the increase in price.

RUC in NZ does skew the cost calculations a lot.

 

I've done some calculations on my 120i over a couple of years and it seems to me the 91 to 95 (98 didn't result in improved economy), that the often substantially cheaper cost of the 91 offsets any consumption savings over 95...if the cost difference between 91 and 95 were more linear then it would probably not be the case. Interestingly in the UK 95 (RON so same as NZ) is the "cheaper" fuel and 98 is the premium stuff. I cannot recall ever seeing 91. (That said, I do usually fill up the 120 with 95....because that just seems the right thing to do 😂😂)

Trust me...the increased MPG and the fact that at one point in time diesel was less than HALF the price of petrol in the UK was the  main driver. The few hundred quid a year difference in 'road tax' (rego equiv) was not the main motivator, especially when considering the higher diesel car sticker price (and at one time the increased maintenance schedule!)  People could pretty much half their annual fuel bill going diesel. Given they are also turbo diesel also of course, many most have amazing torque outputs for 'ordinary' cars and this also makes them very appealing. 

The gap between diesel and petrol has closed in price i the UK but the 48+ MPG that many diesels. Many of the smaller diesel and even petrol engines qualified for zero 'road tax'. 

I had a 2.0 TDI Mark V Golf as a company car for some years and the fuel economy on that thing was immense (and it would be most things off the lights with ease too!). 

Edited January 10, 2022 by HalfJobHarry

[KwS 2425]

Are nzdm BMWs designed to run on 91 detuned like some other new cars are (compared to overseas markets that require higher octane)? 

[balancerider 758]

@KwS some of them (B48/B58) have lower compression engines (option S858) but not designed for 91 Octane AFAIK. @E30 325i Rag-Top may be able to clarify

[lord_jagganath 421]

4 hours ago, Sammo said:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/mg/mgb/listing/3418092402?bof=y30EdYqw

Electric MGB, that 120km range 'depending how you drive'  though haha

oh this is wicked, would probably stick to the ground better than the original. 

[KwS 2425]

4 hours ago, Sammo said:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/mg/mgb/listing/3418092402?bof=y30EdYqw

Electric MGB, that 120km range 'depending how you drive'  though haha

That'd be the perfect commuter for me. Plenty of range for the round trip even if I gunned it everywhere (as if you wouldn't), damn cool styling and the simplicity of not worrying if it will start. Wonder what it's worth, since 20k isn't reserve. 

[Michael. 2313]

I don't agree with putting EV equipment in old classic cars personally, especially if it was an old straight 6, V8 or V12 to start with, I think you remove the essence of the car and turn it to something it's not. Perhaps some people that like that idea only care for the old style, not the old engineering that makes them work with their unique characterful mechanical sounds. Personally I love the old engineering that goes into the petrol motors, knowing what engine X car has is point one of understanding the essence & potential of any car for me. I suppose it's an each to their own deal like anything though. 

At least in the case of the 1970 MG above I like the fact they kept the manual gearbox, very nice.  

That said I wouldnt mind an electric hydrogen fueled car that idled at 700rpm, you could rev it out to 7000rpm stationary with a manual gearbox or automatic fitted and tuned to deliver power like a regular car. None of the above are needed but so what  

 

2 hours ago, KwS said:

That'd be the perfect commuter for me. Plenty of range for the round trip even if I gunned it everywhere (as if you wouldn't), damn cool styling and the simplicity of not worrying if it will start. Wonder what it's worth, since 20k isn't reserve. 

I once priced up an electric conversion probably 10 years ago. Seemed that about 2/3 of the cost was battery 1/3 motor and control units + custom install work. From what I worked out you wouldnt have had much change out of $50,000

I wouldnt be surprised if they were asking 75k+ for this MG  

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Michael.

[aja540i 1906]

3 hours ago, Michael. said:

I once priced up an electric conversion probably 10 years ago. Seemed that about 2/3 of the cost was battery 1/3 motor and control units + custom install work. From what I worked out you wouldnt have had much change out of $50,000

I wouldnt be surprised if they were asking 75k+ for this MG  

 

Used import Leaf, $10k, old British car, $????, then its just labour and compliance  costs. The beauty of ev conversions is that the motors are relatively tiny so you don't have to worry about space and the battery can be configured to fit the space available and give the required range to a certain extent. Aside from the dangers associated with a 300+ volt battery pack, it is no more difficult than a mechanical conversion. 

Imagine having an old classic car in your garage and KNOWING that whenever you want to drive it, it will just work!